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Richard M. Stallman resigns

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Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#571

It's unfortunate that scarlet letter offences are still alive and well in today's culture. Normally, when someone engages in behavior seen as offensive, the procedure is to pressure the person to apologize and mend his ways, and only get rid of him if he refuses to do so. But when a "scarlet letter" offence is involved, we jump straight to the punishment phase, removing the person outright with no judicial process. T…

The challenge is: there is ample evidence that misogyny (and similar offenses) has been unacceptable for years, but it continues. Part of the me-to movement, the election of Trump, ( and the Epstein blowback) is that we need to just stop. And that's why the pressure is there if people can't understand that this sort of behavior in unacceptable in 2019, they need to GTFO.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#573

Some people here seem to need it explained why RMS's comments were wrong. - Minsky is accused, by a credible victim of a non-credible, convicted pedophile, of receiving sexual contact with a woman who was underage at the time, and who was dispatched to him as part of her employment. - RMS says the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to Minsky as entirely willing. He also says that the difference bet…

He doesn't understands power relations because he ignores them. He doesn't bend, which makes him a general outsider of society, but he expect other to act in the same manner, of not bending, because he doesn't understand social ties. There are various few occasions that you see RMS bending. Like plane travels (which require IDs), that he just does when he needs to cross oceans. So to him, a person that dd something b…

He "doesn't bend" because he's never had to. He's been able to leverage his privilege into a lifestyle of not bending.

You know what happens to people who "won't bend" and must? They break and die. So people in dire circumstances learn to bend.

Not personally being in dire circumstance is the luck of the draw. Not considering them, or playing "I wouldn't bend" and belittling them, is a refusal to care.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#574

It's unfortunate that scarlet letter offences are still alive and well in today's culture. Normally, when someone engages in behavior seen as offensive, the procedure is to pressure the person to apologize and mend his ways, and only get rid of him if he refuses to do so. But when a "scarlet letter" offence is involved, we jump straight to the punishment phase, removing the person outright with no judicial process. T…

On the other hand even with this resignation he doesn't appologize for anything. He could even have made his point of thinking it's a misunderstanding and appologize, but didn't.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#575

it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet. Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive. Stay away from taboos or else... never mind the fact that what we regard as wrong changes across different societies over time. Weirdly all the informa…

Yes, it's sad that there are 50 ways to instantly send photos to your friends, but for bringing disparate opinions together it's pretty much just https://www.kialo.com/

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#576
post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy has a long history endorsing pedophillia. Is it so hard to not endorse pedophilla? Can't that just be the one thing everybody agrees on?

Do you have citing for this? Very easy to make a wide claim like this and go on a witch hunt. I don’t know the guy but that’s a big accusation.

https://stallman.org/archives/2003-may-aug.html#25%20May%202... (second item at that date)

https://stallman.org/archives/2006-may-aug.html#05%20June%20...

http://stallman.org/archives/2012-nov-feb.html#04_January_20...

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#577
post #560
post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we please stop excusing bad behavior with some form of "oh because autism"? It's an insult to the many, many neuro-atypical people who don't say shitty, stupid things online, who don't act creepy around women, who don't have a sign on their MIT office that says "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)", who don't have a gross mattress in their office where they encourage people to lie topless, who don't try to pres…

Please provide evidence for this. I can't find anything describing the things you just typed.

You should look in his ass, because that's where he took it from.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#578

It's unfortunate that scarlet letter offences are still alive and well in today's culture. Normally, when someone engages in behavior seen as offensive, the procedure is to pressure the person to apologize and mend his ways, and only get rid of him if he refuses to do so. But when a "scarlet letter" offence is involved, we jump straight to the punishment phase, removing the person outright with no judicial process. T…

I'm normally 100% on board with condemning this Malthusian environment that has sprung up in the last couple years, but I don't believe that Richard Stallman is a complete victim in this scenario.

He has a long history of using forums meant for technology discussion to promote borderline (and that's generous) social opinions, and of being openly hostile to people who don't tow his line. In this instance he ridiculously downplayed the most egregious instances of sex trafficking of minors, by a horridly evil individual... who happened to donate almost a million dollars to him!

His previous comments about minors on his personal blog, which I don't even want to dignify with a description (you can do your own search), leads me to wonder what other connections than money he had with Epstein.

For all of us that don't worship Stallman - I consider him a net negative to the FOSS movement - this has been a long time coming. It would have been a deserved resignation in a normal social environment.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#579
I'm pretty damn disappointed with the discourse here. What RMS wrote in the MIT mailing list was so reprehensible, that I'm pretty sure the people here defending him must have not read it. So here is the comments he wrote to a major MIT mailing list where he victim-blames child sex trafficking victims in the wake of MIT media lab accepting money from credibly accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein:

> The announcement of the Friday event does an injustice to Marvin Minsky:

> “deceased AI ‘pioneer’ Marvin Minsky (who is accused of assaulting one of Epstein’s victims [2])”

> The injustice is in the word “assaulting”. The term “sexual assault”is so vague and slippery that it facilitates accusation inflation: taking claims that someone did X and leading people to think of it as Y, which is much worse than X.

> The accusation quoted is a clear example of inflation. The reference reports the claim that Minsky had sex with one of Epstein’s harem. (See https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20798900/marvin-minsky-jef...) Let’s presume that was true (I see no reason to disbelieve it).

> The word “assaulting” presumes that he applied force or violence, in some unspecified way, but the article itself says no such thing. Only that they had sex.

> We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates.

> I’ve concluded from various examples of accusation inflation that it is absolutely wrong to use the term “sexual assault” in an accusation.

> Whatever conduct you want to criticize, you should describe it with a specific term that avoids moral vagueness about the nature of the criticism.

You can (and we must) acknowledge Stallman's contributions to the field while not condoning his pattern of bad behavior. because if we let a leading figure in the industry act this way publicly, it reflects bad on all of us. We cannot claim to be an industry that accepts and welcomes diverse viewpoints and experiences while still holding up a man who has such a long laundry list of reprehensible behavior as a leader and respected figure in the industry.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#580
post #126

This is actually the best outcome for the FSF. Unwittingly, the FSF might now need to find a leader who isn't a known weirdo/creep who's "genius" people merely tolerate. This might be the best news for FSF fans like me.

Having an uncompromising autist with unbendable principles at the job was the right man at the right job.

There is a high chance that FSF will be taken over by some people-pleaser that compromises FSF into oblivion.

There aren't that many people out there who would take as strong and opinionated stances.

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