Live data from Hacker News

Why is modern web development so complicated?

vrk.dev

571–580 of 731 posts

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#571
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the discussion point was php was too easy and that encouraged new developers or less hardcore developers to adopt it. Some of the defaults like globals being turned on by default led to security holes. How people were creating sql statements at the time concating strings led to sql injection issues. There were never any bad parts . There are new features like the spread operator that are newer and not availab…

> Postgres needs to run under a specific os user. That alone makes it a poor MySQL replacement Where did you get that idea? Postgres can run as any user. In fact, I recently switched my applications to use Postgres even during unit tests (instead of SQLite), i.e. that testing instance runs under my normal login user. That change actually made the CI go faster because compiling the Go SQLite driver takes much much lon…

> I don't use MySQL, but I've heard it's not nearly as bad as it once was.

MySQL 5.7+ is decent. Where it loses out to PostgreSQL is the lack of plugins/extensions. PostgreSQL is extensible in ways MySQL users can only dream of (e.g. timescaledb, pg_trgm)

Also, the forking of MySQL and MariaDB has resulted in 2 very similar databases that people consider interchangeable - but aren't. There's plenty of "gotchas" if SQL is meant to run on both.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of any state management is a nightmare What makes the lack of state management a nightmare in the javascript world, but a complete non-issue when doing .NET or Qt apps? As someone who started with desktop apps and then moved into web dev, I never really understood why Javascript developers wanted a library to help them manage state.

> I never really understood why Javascript developers wanted a library to help them manage state The reason is rooted in how browsers work. In native software you can "just" render your data structures directly to the screen. In the browser, barring webgl, you can't render your data structures directly to the screen, instead, you're forced to interact with an imperative browser API to individually manage bespoke UI w…

That's the same way you work with literally every other UI framework (except the immediate-mode GUIs popular in gamedev), complete with the built-in event loop that's hidden from you. Web isn't special here, except that no other framework I've seen allows you to modify the UI by programmatically editing the serialized text description of it.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#573
post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Five years ago, I decided I was never going to touch PHP ever again. I have been much happier professionally since that day.

Except in a case when we want to build an e-commerce website for client. PHP has so many mature frameworks, like Magento/WooCommerce etc. I look at Python ecosystem. Yeah, we have Oscar and Saleor but they are pale compared to their PHP cousin. But other than e-commerce, yes, Django or even Rails is my preferred choice.

If you ha w to work with Magento just go ahead and sign your sanity over to Cthulhu. That’s what finally drove me over the edge.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#575
I think a lot of programmers forget the purpose of programming is for an end result. Instead, they focus on ever more complexity to feel superior to their peers. "Look what I can do" attitude. This reminds me of the Nasa space pen, when Nasa spent a million to develop a space pen and the Russians just used a pencil.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here's the trick to not building shit software: don't build shit software. It's a crude way to put it, but the reality is that you can build bad websites in any framework (including old PHP stuff and new JavaScript hype). You can also build good websites in any framework. It depends way more on the organisation or team developing it than on the libraries you use.

The trouble is that "don't build shit software" isn't actionable advice on how to avoid building shit software. For someone seeking to be a more skillful web software engineer, there's no information there.

Build software that you would still want to work on five years later. That usually means tests (that aren't so embroiled in the technical details they break with every trivial change, but instead describe the business logic that is important for your application), sensible abstractions, etc. Usually from there you can select some paradigms that make sense for you.

Fundamentally, all of it is a matter of opinion. You have a million options and they are all correct. Don't take a million options at once, practice a lot, understand your problem domain. You won't write something perfect every time but you'll write something a whole lot better than if you were using a million frameworks instead of real thought.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#579
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems odd to me. I have been working in .Net MVC/Core and while I could write an application that is simply HTML/CSS/C#, I would think it would be insane to do so. It takes a massive amount of resources to develop your own security, your own data access without any ORM tools, not cause memory leaks, properly disposing of resource. I'm all about creating reliable applications, but a good framework is a great tool…

PHP is way more "batteries included" than C# without ASP.NET

That's true, I've done PHP for a long time and there are like 1000 functions polluting the global namespace.

Re: Why is modern web development so complicated?

#580

It doesn't have to be complicated, if you get support from above. A few weeks ago I launched a new web site for a health care company. HTML, PHP, CSS, and MySQL. No frameworks. No javascript. No garbage. It replaced a site that was a mess of javascript libraries on top of frameworks on top of a half dozen jquery version and on and on and on. The company administrators, doctors, practitioners, etc... are so happy with…

Just a side note. Javascript does not strictly imply frameworks. Javascript does not strictly imply garbage.

In theory, no. In practice, yes.
Post reply on HN