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Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

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Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#571
I understand this keyboard is brittle, but I absolutely love the feeling of it: I have a hard time typing on my old MacBook Air after using my newer MacBook Pro for more than one year now.

If I could change one thing though, I would get rid of that stupid touch bar....

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#572

I honestly don't understand all these quality sacrifices just to make things thinner. It makes the product actually feel somewhat cheap and brittle. The same thing confuses me with smartphones. Everyone keeps making these bacteria and finger print magnets thinner... the minute you drop it, it's shattered or unuseable... and so then you're buying a case to protect it from scratches and shatter... so what's the point o…

It might be a racket, like the software/hardware market. Intel and OS/Software manufacturers are in cahoots to constantly design apps that require beefier hardware so that people have to constantly upgrade.

The same might go for cell phone manufacturers. They intentionally leave a market for accessories so that their partners can make more money and to ensure support/staying quiet.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#573

I honestly don't understand all these quality sacrifices just to make things thinner. It makes the product actually feel somewhat cheap and brittle. The same thing confuses me with smartphones. Everyone keeps making these bacteria and finger print magnets thinner... the minute you drop it, it's shattered or unuseable... and so then you're buying a case to protect it from scratches and shatter... so what's the point o…

Up until the 2016 MacBook Pro they managed this trade off well. But this wasn’t a product that was ready IMO, and it wasn’t just the keyboard. The hardware isn’t there yet to support a pro machine this thin. The battery life is worse than in 2015, the CPU performance has serious issues due to thermal constraints, and 32GB of RAM that a huge number of pros want can’t be done because what wiggle room they had for battery life they wasted on frivolous bullshit. I’m hopeful that they get this turned around soon, but aside from the keyboard they basically just have to wait for Intel to fix their problems for them.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#574
post #526
post #491

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There's a simple solution for the lack of DDR4LP: end the "thinner and lighter" insanity and provide normal DDR4 with a decent battery capacity by making the laptop 2mm thicker and 0.5 pound heavier.

I’d cut Apple some slack on the RAM front because Intel was supposed to ship DDR4LP a couple years ago, after years of being fairly good about hitting targets. The larger point about recognizing that we’ve plateaued on size & weight benefits is important, though. As long as we need keyboards there’s not much point in taking on all of the other compromises.

Ironically, it was Steve Jobs' pep talk to new executives that went something like: "The difference between a janitor and executive is that VPs are not allowed to have excuses". So trying to share the blame with Intel is just silly.

Every single Apple's competitor delivers laptops with 32+ GB of RAM, and MacBooks are stuck at 16GB and there's no one to blame for it but Apple.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#575

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At same boat as you, and just have migrated all my activities to Windows on 64 Gb Core i7 8 gen CPU desktop. It's a real booster for my day to day work. I love and miss the aesthetics of macOS and Magic Mouse swipes. However let's face it, Apple alone cannot stand the pace. It just cannot compete with hordes of companies from all over the world who do their part of job really really good. Gigabyte, ASUS, Samsung, Int…

We all lose in the long run. Those companies all existed in 2005, but Apple was streets ahead of them for the average person. Apple pushed the industry forward. Remember what the typical phone was like before the iphone? Or the typical mp3 player before the ipod? Sure, the ipod may have had less space than a Nomad and no wifi, but it was what people actually wanted. The question is, is apple really going backwards, o…

USB-C versus magsafe is indeed a step backwards.

A single port on a mobile device for power OR audio? That port is NOT USB-C?

Trying to sell the market a set of customizable function bar replacement versus a touch screen?

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#576

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> Running Linux, of course. I wish more people would. That's the best way to get any issues fixed, whether by filing bug reports, writing up a workaround on a wiki or Stackoverflow to help others, or fixing the bug. It's important for us to own our own tools, and keep the right to do with them as we wish. We expect this for our servers, but ignore it for laptops and desktops. If developers continue like this, then us…

And why do you think that a lot of people who are painfully aware of all the issues you mention still refuse to use Linux on a laptop while happily using it on servers? There is a riduculous repetitiveness about this debate. For me and many others, Linux on a laptop has always been unstable, insecure, hot and noisy. Many specific issues can be fixed if you put in the effort, but on almost every dist-upgrade something…

Exactly! Personally I've been running Debian on my laptop for about 3 years now but come on! You can't deny that it is a pain in the ass to use especially if something breaks and the only way to fix it is to sift through many forums online to find the right commands solve even a simple problem.

Also, why is it so painfully slow to copy documents to a thumb drive using Linux as compared to Windows?

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#577

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You wouldn't notice if it was 5lbs either, the human body is much more capable than that unless we're talking about small children. People routinely carry much bigger and heavier things. Perhaps if it was still a netbook/macbook air product then it would make sense, but we also have iphones and ipads now which actually seem to be getting bigger so there's no reason why the most mobile powerful computing device must b…

I own a 2012 MacBook pro 15' and work gave me a 2016. The difference is about 1.5 pounds, going from 5.6 pounds to 4 pounds. The difference is big enough that I've slowly started using my work laptop for most of my personal needs too, even though I initially wanted to keep my work laptop clean of unnecessary personal data.

I use the 2012 at home and the 2017 at work. Think I actually prefer it heavier but maybe it's because I also respect my 2012 more after growing to hate my 2017 with 5 stuck keys and return key deadzone so look at this supposed flaw as wanted power and sturdiness rather than unwanted weight.

Plus the lightness is offset by having to carry a dongle and them only shipping the bulky powercord not the short cord in the 2017 which I found an insultingly stingy gesture for a nearly 3K machine.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#578
post #56

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How about thinner is lighter, which generally makes the consumer happier?

idk - do consumers really notice if a laptop is 30grams lighter or if it will get them through a full day of work and won't hurt the joints in their fingers after a marathon of typing. Apple makes the best laptop, no doubt but this laptop sucks and the direction they are going means it's just going to get worst.

Except Apple have been shaving full pounds and more off of their laptops, don't know where you got the wrong idea that it's only 30 grams.

And yes, knocking a 5-pound laptop down to 3 pounds is quite noticeable and a huge boon.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#579

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The Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Keyboard does not have loud switches, but feels much better than the Magic Keyboard. Only the function keys are not great.

I use its forerunner the Ergo 4000, nice to type on, quiet, full keyboard and works out the box with its media keys on Linux. Ironic that I use a Microsoft keyboard to type code in a Microsoft language in a Microsoft editor on Linux. The world is a strange place.

Microsoft has released consistently good hardware for over 20 years now. There have been a few duds over the years but by and large their input devices have been stellar.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#580
post #570

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> I honestly don't understand all these quality sacrifices just to make things thinner. It makes the product actually feel somewhat cheap and brittle. It's easy: every time people had the chance to buy thinner or thicker products, they flocked to the thinner ones. The complaints are random outliers around the internet, but the actual Apple's sales numbers (record years after record years and reduced sales for thicker…

"Not just some "vacuous" "non-technie" users either (as the stereotype says)." Actually, Linus comes off to me as particularly non-techie. He obviously cares about it enough to get the work done but couldn't care about it more than that. Not even the OS (outside of the kernel) is of any interest to him (dissing debian because he thinks the installer is too cumbersome etc.). Compare the MacBook Air with the lenovo x-s…

How absurdly elitist do you need to be to describe the creator of Linux as "particularly non-techie"
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