Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2 • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#571

Post by kfcm » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:45 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #559

ashelmire wrote: post #340

Part of me would love to have a big tech / infrastructure company like Amazon in Philly. But I take serious issue with the idea of the city paying millions or billions to bring them here, promising years of tax breaks (a free ride), and the tightening of an already very tight real estate and rental market. I don't think my fellow Philadelphians should have to pay to bring a company here that's just going to hire peop…

The fact of the matter is that cities in the U.S., with respect to each other, are in a race to the bottom. There is nothing they can do about it: the Constitution mandates an unrestricted internal market with no barriers to the free flow of goods and capital between states. That means that companies will go wherever they can get the best deal, and there is no way for state and local governments to restrict that move…

That's incorrect about the Constitution. While it does not lay down specifics, it does give Congress the power to regulate interstate commerce. Known as the Commerce Clause, it's Article I, Section 8, Clause 3: "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;"

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#572

Post by rayiner » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:47 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #567

rayiner wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact of the matter is that cities in the U.S., with respect to each other, are in a race to the bottom. There is nothing they can do about it: the Constitution mandates an unrestricted internal market with no barriers to the free flow of goods and capital between states. That means that companies will go wherever they can get the best deal, and there is no way for state and local governments to restrict that move…

That's just evidence the southern states suck as business locations. They can only get companies to move there by bribing them. Contrast with San Francisco and New York City, where they have tons of taxes and no shortage of companies wanting to be there.

> That's just evidence the southern states suck as business locations

New York and San Francisco didn't do anything to be New York and San Francisco. Their market power is the product of happenstance. In any event, that's irrelevant. If you're Acer, you can't pursue the same business model that works for Apple. All you can do is internalize reality and do the best you can for your stakeholders with what you've got to work with.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#573

Post by femto113 » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:48 PM UTC

aceinaday wrote: post #415

femto113 wrote: post #386

My money is on one of Nashville, Indianapolis or Columbus with Pittsburgh as a dark horse. Amazon is going to be looking to build a major campus (say 5-10 big buildings) right in the center of town (as they've done here in Seattle) and that's just not feasible in expensive cities like LA, Boston, NYC, Chicago or DC. Denver is too far west, Miami, Atlanta and Raleigh too far southeast. Newark and Philadelphia don't ha…

Too far southeast?

I'm guessing this will be a significant issue because of travel to/from Seattle. With 5+ hour flight times and a 3 hour timezone shift it will be nearly impossible to get from Seattle to the southeast on the day of a meeting, whereas you can be in Nashville by 2PM.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#574

Post by deadmetheny » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:49 PM UTC

biocomputation wrote: post #529

closeparen wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL software engineers aren’t actual residents of the places we live.

TIL software engineers think it's okay to participate in the economic and social destruction of neighborhoods in which people have lived for decades.

If you've been on HN for any extended period of time, this should not come as a surprise to you.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#575

Post by theandrewbailey » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:52 PM UTC

jrs95 wrote: post #336

Columbus definitely seems like an underdog here but it could be one of the best options on this list. Great talent pool coming out of Ohio State, young people are already moving here, the local economy is doing great, and real estate is still very cheap compared to the national average and many other cities on this list. It seems like the lack of nonstop flights to Seattle is the only real downside to it. But that's…

I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon has accounts with every major airline. If Amazon wants a daily flight between Seattle and wherever, I'd imagine that some airlines would trip over themselves. I think flights are among the easiest issues to fix.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#576

Post by aaronbrethorst » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:52 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #563

jzymbaluk wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention, those thousands of highly paid employees are going to be buying houses, renting apartments, buying cars, groceries, haircuts, etc

Which will drive up the cost of life for people who currently live in Philadelphia and won't work for Amazon. It will, however, vastly enrich their landlords.

I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted. This is exactly what's happened to Seattle. http://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenews/article/What-does-it-re...

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#577

Post by rayiner » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:53 PM UTC

kfcm wrote: post #571

rayiner wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact of the matter is that cities in the U.S., with respect to each other, are in a race to the bottom. There is nothing they can do about it: the Constitution mandates an unrestricted internal market with no barriers to the free flow of goods and capital between states. That means that companies will go wherever they can get the best deal, and there is no way for state and local governments to restrict that move…

That's incorrect about the Constitution. While it does not lay down specifics, it does give Congress the power to regulate interstate commerce. Known as the Commerce Clause, it's Article I, Section 8, Clause 3: "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;"

The Commerce Clause precludes states from erecting trade barriers between each other. While Congress could in theory do so, (1) it's never to my knowledge ever used its Commerce Clause powers in that way, and (2) provisions like the Privileges and Immunities Clause creates independent prohibitions on erecting barriers between states.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#578

Post by closeparen » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 9:58 PM UTC

biocomputation wrote: post #529

closeparen wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL software engineers aren’t actual residents of the places we live.

TIL software engineers think it's okay to participate in the economic and social destruction of neighborhoods in which people have lived for decades.

Young adults necessarily occupy space in a way that hasn’t yet been legitimized by the passage of much time. Populations that need to work for a living must go where there is work. Many of the consequences of this set of facts are dire and inhumane, and responsible public policy manages their impacts as best it can. A world with no new households is one that has stopped reproducing. A world where people are confined to their economically depressed birth cities is another kind of dystopian hellhole.

Half of this wouldn’t even matter if we let housing become a positive-sum game.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#579

Post by leilacc » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 10:01 PM UTC

agentultra wrote: post #495

chollida1 wrote: post #3

Nice to see Toronto on the list, though game theory suggest that we're only here because having a Canadian Candidate has the potential to have all 3 levels of government involved rather than just state and city. I'm not really sure how to go about handicapping the finalists. Given the current political climate, Toronto is interesting because it's the only city that gives Amazon some escape form the US government. You…

The problem I'd see with putting a campus in Toronto would be that the transit infrastructure is bursting at the seams. Underfunded public transportation, expensive and underfunded regional transportation, and congestion along all major routes during the day. Along with the sky-rocketing cost of living there you'd filter out a lot of candidates or force people to commute over long distances on a choked network. YYZ i…

> a large portion of our talent does head South for the opportunities.

I'm sure a large portion of that (myself included) would strongly consider coming back if there were opportunities like HQ2 in Canada.

And fwiw I'm always pleasantly surprised by the TTC when I go back to visit.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#580

Post by lloyd-christmas » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 10:01 PM UTC

wfo wrote: post #430

lloyd-christmas wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for this? Historically, republican voters are both poorer and less educated (which in and of itself has class implications). However, none of those demographics are relevant if they are all located in solid red states. Given that most people seem to attribute the swing state losses to the 'we need jobs' votes coming from the manufacturing and steel industries, the swing implies it's due to jobles…

First link on google on poor voters going Democratic: http://www.businessinsider.com/exit-polls-who-voted-for-trum... Every income group over $50k voted Trump. If you scroll down you see that rural voters did indeed go for Trump, but they are much smaller proportion of the population than city folk or, the largest group, suburbanites (who went for Trump solidly as well). I don't have a source handy for the poor being…

That article doesn't support your assertion. Those are overall exit polls, not polls of swing states. The swings states are the only meaningful measure of comparison as to "why he won". The middle class are doing very well in red states like Iowa and Nebraska, but they are just as irrelevant as a billionaire in manhattan or a welfare recipient in the bronx.