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Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

reuters.com

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Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#571

Post by illumin8 »

will_brown wrote: post #174
gotothedoctor wrote: post #162

Seems like a lot of people are confused/have questions about why Uber is being criminally investigated by the Department of Justice.* Here's why: 1. Uber is subject to the laws in the jurisdictions in which it operates. Evading authorities is textbook obstruction of justice. Not only did Uber build software that they used to evade authorities & break local laws in multiple states and countries, but they profited from…

Forget software, here in Miami where Uber drivers were initially operating illegally (cited with violating 2 municipal ordinances each being a ~$1,010 civil fine, but escalates to criminal charge after the 3rd such violation) Uber sent emails to driver training them on avoiding detection (e.g. When at airport take down phone; have drivers sit up front; etc...). I imagine there are similar emails for every county, cit…

I've recently noticed a huge decline in the quality of Uber drivers. In 2012, when I first started using Uber, most of the drivers were college educated millennials driving a brand new Toyota Prius. They were friendly and nice to have a conversation with while you drove.

Today, the drivers I get on UberX are almost universally bad. You get a 10 year old vehicle that is poorly maintained and unsafe (last couple rides have been a 2006 Ford Escape and a 2005 Chevy Bronco; both had bad tires and suspension and numerous dashboard warning lights lit). The drivers are immigrants with very poor english, who didn't have an EZ Pass for the tolls, and most likely were borrowing their friend or family member's car.

Unless I really have to now, I'm avoiding Uber and driving myself to the airport. Uber has proven they don't care about passenger safety, and only care about profits.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#572

Post by wdb »

will_brown wrote: post #174
gotothedoctor wrote: post #162

Seems like a lot of people are confused/have questions about why Uber is being criminally investigated by the Department of Justice.* Here's why: 1. Uber is subject to the laws in the jurisdictions in which it operates. Evading authorities is textbook obstruction of justice. Not only did Uber build software that they used to evade authorities & break local laws in multiple states and countries, but they profited from…

Forget software, here in Miami where Uber drivers were initially operating illegally (cited with violating 2 municipal ordinances each being a ~$1,010 civil fine, but escalates to criminal charge after the 3rd such violation) Uber sent emails to driver training them on avoiding detection (e.g. When at airport take down phone; have drivers sit up front; etc...). I imagine there are similar emails for every county, cit…

If I wanted to sit up front. I would either drive myself or ask a friend. I am paying for a taxi :P

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#573

Post by sreitshamer »

naskwo wrote: post #293

Last weekend, I visited Hamburg with my wife. I was surprised when I was told that I couldn't catch an Uber. However, on each German taxi (you know, the beige ones) there was a sticker prompting me to download the "EUTaxi" (or similarly named) app, which I did. Brilliant. I was able to summon a car within minutes, and this app also allows for paying via the app. Uber's biggest threat is, IMO, the creation of a well-w…

Me too. During a 3-day visit to Austin TX I used RideAustin maybe 10 times. It was flawless. The app works just as well as Uber's, the cars and drivers were just fine.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#574

Post by chronic940 »

illumin8 wrote: post #571
will_brown wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget software, here in Miami where Uber drivers were initially operating illegally (cited with violating 2 municipal ordinances each being a ~$1,010 civil fine, but escalates to criminal charge after the 3rd such violation) Uber sent emails to driver training them on avoiding detection (e.g. When at airport take down phone; have drivers sit up front; etc...). I imagine there are similar emails for every county, cit…

I've recently noticed a huge decline in the quality of Uber drivers. In 2012, when I first started using Uber, most of the drivers were college educated millennials driving a brand new Toyota Prius. They were friendly and nice to have a conversation with while you drove. Today, the drivers I get on UberX are almost universally bad. You get a 10 year old vehicle that is poorly maintained and unsafe (last couple rides…

> Unless I really have to now, I'm avoiding Uber and driving myself to the airport. Uber has proven they don't care about passenger safety, and only care about profits.

You do that. Me and the tens of thousands other riders will continue to use Uber for airport trips despite owning a car. I just wanted to counter your antecdote with mine.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#576

Post by gkya »

Paul-ish wrote: post #493
naskwo wrote: post #293

Last weekend, I visited Hamburg with my wife. I was surprised when I was told that I couldn't catch an Uber. However, on each German taxi (you know, the beige ones) there was a sticker prompting me to download the "EUTaxi" (or similarly named) app, which I did. Brilliant. I was able to summon a car within minutes, and this app also allows for paying via the app. Uber's biggest threat is, IMO, the creation of a well-w…

Not defending Uber in particular, but another feature of the taxi apps is instant feedback about the driver. My father took a traditional taxi back home from the airport (SeaTac). The driver was on his cell phone the entire time and driving erratically. When my father went to the taxi board to report his behavior they told him "You have an appointment to stand before the board and make your case. It is Wednesday at 3…

That's a problem with the local taxi organisation. In Istanbul if I have a problem with a taxi (or any other public transport vehicle/agent) it's enough to call 153 and report or fill out a form online. AFAIK they also accept SMS messages. Also, we have BiTaksi app here where we can give instant feedback and also see star-ratings about the drivers. So if your infra is bad, that does not necessarily mean the means is bad also.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#577

Post by raleighm »

gotothedoctor wrote: post #560
raleighm wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hardly pro public policy for natural persons to violate the law, either. Again we come back to this point: What can you point to as any kind of evidence that courts make the distinction you claim. If your answer is that you would need to teach me civil and criminal procedure first, I would note that I am a lawyer and aced those courses, so feel free to assume an advanced understanding in your response. I don't p…

Yes, that's what I'm saying? Hmmm. I'll try but maybe we are misunderstanding each other, because this doesn't seem debatable? There are rules that define what kind of defenses, mitigating circumstances, evidence can be presented etc, are permitted for civil & criminal cases & what common law & evidence can be shared with the jury etc.. I'm unaware of any jurisdiction where corporations are considered equal to people…

Thanks for sticking with the exchange. If courts apply different rules for how natural persons and corporations could speak to juries about reasons for noncompliance, that would indeed be interesting. Wasn't aware of that being the case.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#578

Post by raleighm »

gotothedoctor wrote: post #559
raleighm wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't expect a response but here are a few observations: You seem to view civil disobedience as a concept inherent to legal procedure as opposed to being by definition outside of law. That seems to me a very unorthodox definition of civil disobedience. What I mean by civil disobedience is any legal agent (natural person or otherwise) refusing to comply with valid law for reasons of conscience. If you are subject to…

I just meant I wouldn't respond to a comment about how actually corporations totally have state of minds and intentions. Sure, one could write laws where they did (just like you could write a law that says anything), but that is not presently the case in any jurisdiction I am aware of and there's not much of a reason to think it'll ever change. Because corporations are not people. I am not sure what you mean. I do vi…

For examples of legally binding orders, see the transparency policies of major tech companies (disclosure: I worked for one). Government routinely submits binding information requests, together with gag orders. The pleadings in Microsoft's recent lawsuit challenging the orders gives a sense of the extent. The fact that actions can be challenged doesn't mean corporate civil disobedience is irrelevant. What if a challenge fails? Yes, corporations can lobby. So can humans. Yes, obligations towards stakeholders make the matter complicated. I don't think it's true that fiduciary obligation requires absolute compliance with laws (what about late filing penalties that it makes economic sense to incur?), so context matters. I disagree there's a slippery slope towards meaninglessness. But I appreciate your comments. I have a good sense of where you are coming from. Thanks.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#579

Post by kofejnik »

Applejinx wrote: post #567
grandalf wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Overall, you get more people working longer hours for less compensation So then the solution to increasing wages is simply to ban hard-working, willing people from taking jobs! Brilliant. Let's force them to be unemployed just so that those who are allowed to work can make a bit more money. The biggest flaw in your argument is that it completely leaves out the value of experience. Those lower-wage drivers are not s…

"So then the solution to increasing wages is simply to ban hard-working, willing people from taking jobs!" Yes, when the job is a systemic arbitrage of labor that externalizes costs and consequences in a way that's bad for society. You might as well say 'so the solution to increasing wealth is simply to ban enterprising, daring people from robbing houses, stores and banks!' We're talking about the ways capital is exc…

it still beats sleeping under the bridge, though

edit: what makes you so sure about what's good for society?

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#580

Post by fstuff »

will_brown wrote: post #230
thesmallestcat wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hope the drivers always sit up front!

I think rider auto corrected to driver...here is a link to a copy of the alleged Uber email to Miami driver's [1]. I don't believe they misspelled anything but if you change the charge from illegal ride for hire to prostitution, drugs, etc... it's Fairly easy to see organized crime... some of our drivers/prositutes/dealers have got into legal trouble, while we work to lobby to change the law, you can hopefully avoid…

Wow. I read that link and they flat out tell their people how to get around the airport ban. They tell the drivers not to have the app in view, keep it in your cup holder, ask the passenger to sit up front and say your a friend if asked. Drop the passenger off as far away from the terminal door if possible. And if you do get caught they'll provide you with a lawyer and pay the 1100 dollar fine up to 3 times before deactivating you. That last one is messed up, like sorry you're fired for not being sneaky enough
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