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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

blog.samaltman.com

571–580 of 906 posts

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#571

I moved to San Francisco from a very rural area (was working remotely from my father-in-law's farm), and there are a few things the liberals I work with simply do not understand about what's happening in "small-town America" (Disclaimer: I did not vote for Trump, and I don't consider myself a Republican). 1. People hate Hillary Clinton. Haaaate her. No, you think I'm saying they disagree with her politics, but you do…

I think your point about insurance premiums is spot on. A $100-200/month increase isn't much when you live in a high cost of living area with higher salaries, but when you live in a low cost of living area with lower salaries, that $100-200/month might be a huge percentage change in your monthly expenditures. People who are on employee-sponsored health plans don't understand how expensive healthcare is for low-income…

It's still misplaced anger, because the GOP refuses to expand medicare or to allow collective bargaining to push costs down. Voting GOP because Obamacare is mediocre makes no sense because the GOP has no intention (and literally no plan) to fix any of the problems with Obamacare.

Besides, the towns with 30k average income didn't vote for Trump, they voted overwhelmingly for Clinton. Trump did well in middle America among 70k household income families.

There is also a large gap between how angry people are at Obamacare and at the American Care Act. They're the same thing, of course, but only Obamacare makes people seethe with rage. So clearly the GOP has been successful in poisoning the healthcare debate.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#572

I moved to San Francisco from a very rural area (was working remotely from my father-in-law's farm), and there are a few things the liberals I work with simply do not understand about what's happening in "small-town America" (Disclaimer: I did not vote for Trump, and I don't consider myself a Republican). 1. People hate Hillary Clinton. Haaaate her. No, you think I'm saying they disagree with her politics, but you do…

> But they like their way of life, they don't want yours, and want politicians to generally leave them alone and let them be.

Umm - they want to be left alone, let be, let them live their lives where they are, yet they are complaining about not being heard...

...can you have it both ways?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#573
post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are illegal because the system is so broken. There's a market demand for those people, and they're moving here to work, by and large. > Just because something is set in law does not make it morally right. ...and neither does "the market."

No, but if you have a huge market demand for something, and make it illegal... that demand will still get filled, but cause all kinds of other problems: Exhibit A: the "war on drugs".

The fix here is to reduce demand. By fining companies which hire illegal immigrants we'll make it cheaper to hire american.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#574
post #52

Trump won largely because of disenfranchised blue collar caucasians resonated with him. Watching the witch hunt over the last 2 months you would think it would be anything but that. Fake news (just call it propaganda), russian hackers, 4chan memes and white supremacists have all received the majority of blame. I'm curious to whether the Democrats will ever come to terms with reality here, or will they just double dow…

I'm wondering how disenfranchised blue collar caucasians resonate with a billionaire who literally shits on a gold toilet. How is it that they think he somehow represents them?

They do know how narcissists operate, right?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#575

That's fascinating. What's striking is the absence of economic complaints. Much of the US, by area, is seeing jobs disappear and a gradually declining standard of living. Yet that's not what the Trump supporters Altman talked to are concerned about. There's not one mention of China. Loss of jobs due to foreign competition isn't mentioned. There's also not much mention of religion. "God", "Christian", and "religion" d…

Well, stopping abortion is part and parcel of religion. You won't find many atheists or agnostics who oppose legal abortion. Perhaps some limits on it, but not an outright banning; that's solely the province of religious people.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a rationalization of regret, it's not the result of a new decision-making process. You're missing the point. These voters chose him despite those weaknesses because they prioritized other issues more highly. Their decision making processes involved looking at both pro's and con's and the other pro's outweighed those con's. Making the blanket assumption that a vote for a candidate is an endorsement of _all_…

But why would they "lose all respect" now, if they didn't during the election period?

Because the presidency and the election period are different things?

You vote based on your expectations of their actions in the former and not the latter.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#577

I moved to San Francisco from a very rural area (was working remotely from my father-in-law's farm), and there are a few things the liberals I work with simply do not understand about what's happening in "small-town America" (Disclaimer: I did not vote for Trump, and I don't consider myself a Republican). 1. People hate Hillary Clinton. Haaaate her. No, you think I'm saying they disagree with her politics, but you do…

1. Why do they hate her? 2. Do they consider him not racist/sexist because they are a little bit too? (Not trying to be inflammatory) 3. I hate it too. 4b. Why are they hurting? Why is median household income so low?

re: 1 I think it's 2 fold:

a) A really successful propagation of lies regarding her. I live in Ohio and get junk mail all the time, some of it is just absurd. They make claims about the terrorist attacks she allowed while "in office" as sec of state. Makes no sense.

b) They are quite possibly right and she is the worst. Look into the death of Vince Foster, whitewater, her suspicious reasons for hiding her email from the us government. There's A LOT of circumstantial evidence that she is beyond corrupt.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't say Merry Christmas. Specifically in schools, this is problematic because it makes children who do not celebrate christmas feel left out. Adults should be able to handle it, children not so much. > You can't say you understand homosexuality to be a disorder. This is not an opinion related to your job, so you should definitely keep it to yourself while on the job. While some people will definitely throw a…

Regardless of whether any of these are considered "rude" or "disrespectful" (which btw is an opinion that many Trump supporters openly disagree with), it's a very real form of censorship to mandate that people aren't allowed to say these things. And that's dangerous.

I don't see the danger in encouraging people to treat each other with respect.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#579
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of the "CO2->Global Warming->Catastrophe" thing is it that you don't buy? What is "false consensus"? Are you in a position to judge the conclusions supported by a vast majority (that's only my perception, but how likely is it to be completely mistaken?) of experts? What brings you to the conclusion that global warming could be a hoax? Do you have a reason for not trusting the experts? Who could be intereste…

Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert, wrote an interesting piece on this topic. http://blog.dilbert.com/post/154082416051/the-non-expert-pro...

I don't always science, but when I do, I prefer to trust cartoonists.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#580

I moved to San Francisco from a very rural area (was working remotely from my father-in-law's farm), and there are a few things the liberals I work with simply do not understand about what's happening in "small-town America" (Disclaimer: I did not vote for Trump, and I don't consider myself a Republican). 1. People hate Hillary Clinton. Haaaate her. No, you think I'm saying they disagree with her politics, but you do…

1. Why do they hate her? 2. Do they consider him not racist/sexist because they are a little bit too? (Not trying to be inflammatory) 3. I hate it too. 4b. Why are they hurting? Why is median household income so low?

I live in a small deep-red town, so I'll try to give my take on a few here.

2. Imagine you lived in a town where 99% of the population is not racist, but that 1% that is racist is blatantly so. They don't do thing subtly, but they openly use racial slurs and make it known that they don't like or trust people of a certain ethnicity.

Now imagine someone comes into town and when they happen to see someone of color they subtly walk to the other side of the road, or quickly double check to make sure their wallet is still there after they pass by.

To many (most?) people in the town, they likely wouldn't perceive this as being racist at all. Racism to them is walking into the passerby intentionally and saying something crude like, "Watch where you are going, *!"

When you spend your entire life thinking that this is what a racist is, Trump can seem incredibly tame by comparison.

Now we can get into a completely different discussion about whether those people truly are racist for not recognizing racism, not ostracizing the few blatantly racist people, etc, but in my experience nearly all of those people are making a genuine effort to be accepting of others and aren't intentionally racist. They have just grown up in a completely different environment/culture than what you would get growing up in a city, and their opinion of what is racism isn't the same as yours.

4. Where I grew up, something like 75% or more of the jobs were at factories. Toys, factory equipment, bicycles, fiberglass, metal, etc all came out of the town. And the people working these jobs weren't lazy - they would work 60+ hours every week, often working Saturdays, long overlapping shifts, and the factory would run 24/7. They even dealt with dangerous equipment (it isn't uncommon to see people missing fingers here) where they needed to pay attention to what they were doing all the time without any additional compensation. But they were happy. They could provide for their family. They could make enough to pay for a $100k house and their wife could stay at home and watch the kids because he likely was working and couldn't help out. Wages were never amazing, but they got by.

Now for whatever reason - automation, outsourcing, immigration, or whatever else - many of those jobs are gone, and now these people who previously would bust their asses to get by are still trying to bust their asses, but they are all fighting for the few jobs remaining. Wages are down (more workers than are needed by jobs). Spouses are working to try to help pay the bills. Despite all of that, things just don't look like they are getting better anytime soon. There simply aren't enough jobs available for them.

In cities service jobs can often help fill this gap, but in small towns it typically isn't enough. And many people don't want to, or can't afford to move. They are already barely able to pay their $400/mo mortgage and nobody would want to move to their prospect free town, so who are they going to sell their house to? They have grandparents in the area who need their help. They have kids 6 years into school with friends they don't want to uproot. So they do what they can, take what work they can, and get by hoping and praying that someone will take notice of their struggle and try to help them out. And the median income continues to decrease.

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