Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

visa.lafrenchtech.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

571–580 of 751 posts

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#571

Post by user5994461 »

hk__2 wrote: post #518
renaudg wrote: post #425

Regarding French salaries again : yes they are lower than elsewhere but with some exceptions, French employers are not the problem : they do pay the same price for you as in other European countries, more or less ! The difference is that your average engineer in France costs them around 1.5-2.5 times the total take home pay, because of high, compulsory labor taxes. In exchange, employees get as standard : * a top not…

> * 5 weeks holiday + public holidays In some companies you get even more weeks ("RTTs") to compensate for the hours you do over 35hrs/week. The company I work for gives me the usual 5 weeks plus 3 weeks of RTTs which brings the total to 8 weeks, i.e. almost 2 months per year (!)

Also means you don't get paid 8 weeks a year.

I remember very well when French employers forced me to get more holidays, which destroyed the income I needed to actually afford any holidays at all.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#572

Post by mathieuuu »

Joky wrote: post #535
erowtom wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Update : Thanks for the feedbacks ! 1st update: Included mobile phone + Internet 2nd update: Huge update, completly forgot about one tax on the salary.. ----------------------- I'm French, I can give you some more details. I'm a full stack Ruby Developer, and I work at https://www.talent.io , the first recruitment platform for developers in Europe. (If you're looking to relocate in Paris, London or Berlin, you know w…

> My raw income last year was appx 45K euros. I paid appx 5K to the state in taxes, only for the salary. Employee Taxes on the "Raw" salary are approx ~23% usually, that does not match your 5k. Are you talking about the yearly "income taxes"? But then your 45K were not "raw" in the French sense?

Same, I don't understand with 45K of raw salary how he can only have 5k of tax.

According to: http://www.salaire-brut-en-net.fr/ The after-employer-tax, he should get: 34650k

From which he still need to substract the income tax which is paid directly by employee. It is roughly a month of after tax salary -> 2880.

In total, I would say that a 45k gross income becomes 31k after tax.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#573

Post by user5994461 »

truth_sentinell wrote: post #558
erowtom wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Update : Thanks for the feedbacks ! 1st update: Included mobile phone + Internet 2nd update: Huge update, completly forgot about one tax on the salary.. ----------------------- I'm French, I can give you some more details. I'm a full stack Ruby Developer, and I work at https://www.talent.io , the first recruitment platform for developers in Europe. (If you're looking to relocate in Paris, London or Berlin, you know w…

Thank you for this very well explained post with all details. I love stuff like this, 0 obfuscation, straight to the point. So, if you get approximately like 30k free every year, how much time would it take you to buy your own flat and car?

30k salary = 17XX € per month.

Let's say a flat is 500k. I hate to disappoint you but you'll never afford to buy a flat.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#574

Post by erowtom »

mathieuuu wrote: post #572
Joky wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My raw income last year was appx 45K euros. I paid appx 5K to the state in taxes, only for the salary. Employee Taxes on the "Raw" salary are approx ~23% usually, that does not match your 5k. Are you talking about the yearly "income taxes"? But then your 45K were not "raw" in the French sense?

Same, I don't understand with 45K of raw salary how he can only have 5k of tax. According to: http://www.salaire-brut-en-net.fr/ The after-employer-tax, he should get: 34650k From which he still need to substract the income tax which is paid directly by employee. It is roughly a month of after tax salary -> 2880. In total, I would say that a 45k gross income becomes 31k after tax.

Damn, I made a mistake, you're right. Completly forgot about that tax (the huge one) :(. Updating right now !

Edit : I've updated it, thanks for spotting that one. I should have talked about "net" revenue when doing my calculations !

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#575

Post by josephcooney »

ekianjo wrote: post #547
tostaki wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a French living in Paris and having created a company before I'm sorry but some of your points are simply not true and/or not relevant. > $130k in the US [...] vs. $50k Just no, a $130k salary in the US would be at least 70k€ in Paris. In others city it would probably be less but the cost of living would be much less too. > there's even talk of actually forcing men to take paternity leave Just because one organiza…

tokyo has way better access to public transport than Paris. And better quality transport too. Again chauvinism coming out whenever anything is mentioned about France. Paris n est pas le nombril du monde.

Everyone's public transport system looks shabby compared to Tokyo.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#576

Post by user5994461 »

erowtom wrote: post #557
joss82 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free. They are the best. They even offer free roaming in most of Europe! http://www.free.fr

Side note, I ran away from Free, it was not working at all, phone calls cutting all the time, Internet not reliable at all, I went to Sosh for mobile phone and "Orange" for home Internet, I NEVER (not a single one) had 1 small cut. I heavily use both, it's awesome.

Take "SFR Red" otherwise. They adjusted to have all the same offers as free.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#577

Post by user5994461 »

glandium wrote: post #549
briandear wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$130k in the US with paid health insurance, 2-4 weeks of vacation and dramatically lower taxes, vs. $50k in France with more 'benefits' and higher taxes.. Are those extra benefits worth $80k per year? Social charges really crush the ability for French companies to compete. Then with CDIs making it almost impossible to fire anyone, it results in a far less liquid job market. Now there's even talk of actually forcing m…

> Then with CDIs making it almost impossible to fire anyone This myth has to stop. It's almost impossible to fire anyone on the spot . You can't tell them "go home, and I don't want to hear from you again". You have to give them up to 3 months notice (depending on the contract, for engineers, it's going to be 3 months). But you can still have them go home and never come back, as long as those 3 months are paid. Edit:…

For a UK contract (and probably USA), there is a clause that says 'if any party decides to end the contract, so be it, and there will be X weeks/months of notice".

For a French contract (CDI = permanent), it's not possible to terminate the employee unilaterally.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#578

Post by erowtom »

user5994461 wrote: post #573
truth_sentinell wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this very well explained post with all details. I love stuff like this, 0 obfuscation, straight to the point. So, if you get approximately like 30k free every year, how much time would it take you to buy your own flat and car?

30k salary = 17XX € per month. Let's say a flat is 500k. I hate to disappoint you but you'll never afford to buy a flat.

You've misunderstood. I get 26570 euros at the end of the year, after paying taxes, food, electricity, flat, insurances, common life stuff. This is the "bonus". I also moved to another company and greatly increased my revenue :).

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#579

Post by guitarbill »

hayd wrote: post #504
guitarbill wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some (significant?) drawbacks to this. Although English fees are outrageous now, 8 years ago here's the differences I observed between English and German university. Because it's free, the first year has to be brutal to weed out % the huge number of applicants. Lecture halls are overcrowded, especially for popular courses. If you want a seat, you need to get there 10 minutes early. The amount of 1:1 with st…

I thought German's also cram in 4 terms every year rather than 2 and a bit in the UK? It seem like Germans who were doing 4 years had covered more ground than a bachelors + 2 years of MSc in the UK. Perhaps that's not the case across all courses/universities, but seemed to be the case from my experience with Mathematics Erasmus students (in both directions) and German PhD students. Seems to me like the German system…

> Seems to me like the German system is very high quality, and that the UK let too many weak candidates in to University and so the first year (and every year) is getting easier to compensate...

This kind of generalisation is obviously useless, think Cambridge. Not that I'm defending all English universities, most of them aren't great. But that's true everywhere.

A big problem in Germany is that the transition to Bachelor/Master degrees has resulted in courses that are in need of refining. Badly in some cases. I'm mainly critical to the way German institutions handle undergrad degrees. Their research is top notch, and many of my friends from England went on to do research there. I think that's also an indication that English degrees are rigorous enough.

UK admissions is in principle more rigorous, by far. It acknowledges that school marks aren't everything and consideration for individuals with unusual situations or evident passion outside of school is given. Since offers are extended on a case-by-case basis, it's more fine-grained and the overcrowding, Darwinian filtering doesn't happen.

It's very easy to confuse working hard for working smart. Both will can get you to the same place, but in terms of personal development, one has to be nurtured and the other burns you out.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#580

Post by sologoub »

tostaki wrote: post #522
briandear wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$130k in the US with paid health insurance, 2-4 weeks of vacation and dramatically lower taxes, vs. $50k in France with more 'benefits' and higher taxes.. Are those extra benefits worth $80k per year? Social charges really crush the ability for French companies to compete. Then with CDIs making it almost impossible to fire anyone, it results in a far less liquid job market. Now there's even talk of actually forcing m…

As a French living in Paris and having created a company before I'm sorry but some of your points are simply not true and/or not relevant. > $130k in the US [...] vs. $50k Just no, a $130k salary in the US would be at least 70k€ in Paris. In others city it would probably be less but the cost of living would be much less too. > there's even talk of actually forcing men to take paternity leave Just because one organiza…

Paris metro system definitely has an amazing coverage. I really enjoyed using it, but I'm athletic, love walking and don't have any injuries. On the other hand, I recently had to use it with someone who's knees aren't so good - I never realized how steep those stairs are and how few escalators are there. If you have any kind of disability or kids with strollers, it's definitely not the most comfortable way to travel.
Post reply on HN