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Chrome removes Backspace to go back

bugs.chromium.org

571–580 of 594 posts

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#571

This feels a bit like how Esc was nerfed over the years in Firefox and others until it essentially did nothing. It used to mean STOP. All sockets were closed, the page stopped loading, and I think way waaay back, even animated gifs stopped cycling and JavaScript timeouts and intervals were cancelled. Single-page webapps were the death of Esc, it was too confusing to users to have a page suddenly hang because they pre…

> Just going to need to train the old timers on the new key strokes.

Ironically, that's probably the reverse of reality. Looking at the comments here, for starters, we have people espousing views that things have "always" been this way, and quoting their experiences of "the past ten years". It's the young people who are having problems and need to be re-trained here.

The "old timers" will, conversely, have experienced data entry on terminals or in MS-DOS programs like (say) Borland Paradox, where of course things like a backspace key will at most have moved from field to field on a single page, if indeed it caused inter-field motion at all. (The CUA Guidelines give no indication that autotab applies to backspacing from the first field position, i.e. auto back tab. There's a COMPSEC83 paper that talks about it, though.) Backspace certainly didn't switch forms.

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because they do impose a constant and non-trivial burden on everyone else (especially in cases like backspace which are relatively easy to hit on accident). So make them an option and stop taking the Chrome route of stripping out everything that more advanced users use regularly. Of course, this is why I run Firefox. I can do things like force OCSP enabled and get error pages when it fails - Chrome's solution was t…

> So make them an option and stop taking the Chrome route of stripping out everything that more advanced users use regularly. Did you really use backspace and "move back" on regular basis? Why? You most likely aren't browsing the web with just your keyboard, so unless you are a leftie it requires you to either move your hand back to keyboard or move your hand across the whole keyboard and why would you do either of t…

As a ThinkPad external keyboard user it's my primary navigation to go Back. TrackPoint, no mouse. Primary scrolling navigation is the Home/End/PgUp/PgDn group. Backspace for Back fits amazingly in this workflow.

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of my desktop use is on a Thinkpad laptop with no mouse and the trackpad disabled. I don't have a scroll wheel or a touch screen. The gaming instance is a failure of Web controls to adequately adapt to context. I can see how that would be distracting. I am not willing to sacrifice my space-to-scroll capabilities on that account. As with Fitts' law, the spacebar is a very large target. Easy to hit. Frequent actio…

> Most of my desktop use is on a Thinkpad laptop with no mouse and the trackpad disabled. > I don't have a scroll wheel or a touch screen. I use the middle button + trackpoint for scrolling - works great. That's the default on most Linux distros/desktop environments, might require some configuration on Windows.

Spacebar is a far larger target.

Fitts' Law.

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

110% yes. I've been playing Stellaris, and they actually put hotkey references in the tooltip! I can't do everything with the keyboard, but I'm doing way more than I was. Hotkeys are great and we should encourage more tooltips & labels with them. Not just in videogames, but in anything that could benefit from hotkeys.

Emacs has a nice way of teaching people shortcuts. If you invoke a command via some menu or M-x full-command-name that has a shortcut bound to it, you'll get a message in the minibuffer saying "You can also run full-command-name with: shortcut". It's a very non-invasive way to teach people shortcuts just-in-time.

Huh, that is awesome. As a novice vimpire I'd love to figure out a teaching tool like that for vim. Vim doesn't really have a menu-- but maybe something that recognizes what series of edits you just made and suggests a shortcut?

(I.e. "You just traveled to the end of a line and deleted a ". You could have done 'A[esc]dw' or whatever it is. Like I said, I'm bad at vim over here.)

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#575
post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Must be why I said standard.

No, that would be because you didn't know what standard keyboard layouts are. * CAN/CSA Z243.200-92 is a standard keyboard layout. One Alt modifier, one level 3 shift: https://www.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/images/ti/clavier.gif * DIN 2137-1:2012-06 T3 is a standard keyboard layout. One Alt modifier, one level 3 shift: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:German-T2-Keyboard-Proto... * ABNT NBR 10346 2 is a standard keyboard layo…

You're taking what I said too literally. If you go to a store and buy an off the shelf PC, a very common keyboard will come with it that has 2 ALTs.

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#576
post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that would be because you didn't know what standard keyboard layouts are. * CAN/CSA Z243.200-92 is a standard keyboard layout. One Alt modifier, one level 3 shift: https://www.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/images/ti/clavier.gif * DIN 2137-1:2012-06 T3 is a standard keyboard layout. One Alt modifier, one level 3 shift: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:German-T2-Keyboard-Proto... * ABNT NBR 10346 2 is a standard keyboard layo…

You're taking what I said too literally. If you go to a store and buy an off the shelf PC, a very common keyboard will come with it that has 2 ALTs.

Incorrect. That is not what happens when I do that.

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#577
post #243

I'm going to take a somewhat contrarian view and say, "Thank you, Chrome developers." It's always easy to tell apart the people who know shortcuts from the people who don't, if you watch them use their computers. Someone with a few shortcuts on tap will zoom around their monitors, switching between mouse and keyboard only when necessary. But there are a few shortcuts and user interface quirks that are too outdated an…

But there are better solutions. Comment #35 in that thread actually provides one: > The problem: Moving away from a form can result in data loss. > Your solution: Make it harder to move away. > The correct solution: Cache tab history completely and make it easy to move forward and backward in a tab's history by reusing cache and maintaining form contents. (Source: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id…

Old Opera did this, before all the other browsers.

It still did not help them gain more than 4% marketshare.

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#578
post #571

This feels a bit like how Esc was nerfed over the years in Firefox and others until it essentially did nothing. It used to mean STOP. All sockets were closed, the page stopped loading, and I think way waaay back, even animated gifs stopped cycling and JavaScript timeouts and intervals were cancelled. Single-page webapps were the death of Esc, it was too confusing to users to have a page suddenly hang because they pre…

> Just going to need to train the old timers on the new key strokes. Ironically, that's probably the reverse of reality. Looking at the comments here, for starters, we have people espousing views that things have "always" been this way, and quoting their experiences of "the past ten years". It's the young people who are having problems and need to be re-trained here. The "old timers" will, conversely, have experience…

Very interesting history perspective on backspace, thank you.

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of my desktop use is on a Thinkpad laptop with no mouse and the trackpad disabled. > I don't have a scroll wheel or a touch screen. I use the middle button + trackpoint for scrolling - works great. That's the default on most Linux distros/desktop environments, might require some configuration on Windows.

Spacebar is a far larger target. Fitts' Law.

I don't think that's particularly applicable here. I doubt that any touch typist has problems finding the vast majority of the keys on their keyboard (or mouse). Also, how often do you hit space while reading an article anyway, a couple of times per minutes? It's nowhere near being time-sensitive. Even if it somehow took you ten seconds to find it each time before you hit it, your finger would have found it and be settled on it by the time you reached the bottom of the page and were ready to go onto the next.

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with configuration options is that they need maintaining indefinitely to accommodate a small proportion of the user population. That means testing behaviour with the flag on/off, and taking into account the possibility of that flag being on when dealing with bug reports. In this case it's a minor thing which probably wouldn't require much maintainance, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

This. Configuration flags increase complexity. Every time you change the feature in question (or add something that uses it) you will have to take into account every possible flag combination.

This is true in general. Although "decrease complexity" shouldn't exactly trump "build the right thing."

In this case, the right thing really is contextual, so a configuration or extant setting / default is worth the cost in complexity.

The quote "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler" comes to mind here.

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