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Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

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Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#571

Post by ryanbrunner »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #537
Diederich wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take the opposite approach. The last time I moved, I made a secure web page that had my current comp package, in detail, and the minimums on my required comp package, in detail. This I sent to every recruiter that had contacted me in the previous 18 months. Scores of them. Before I would speak to any of them on the phone, I'd get a soft confirmation via e-mail that they had a position that could meet my requirement…

Is it necessary to state your current info?

Personally, I think it's worthwhile to include, as social proof. If another company was paying $X and was perfectly happy with the employee, $X plus a modest / reasonable $Y doesn't seem so crazy. It shows that you're not just pulling an unrealistic salary out of thin air.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#572

Post by boren_ave11 »

discodave wrote: post #566
ryanobjc wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that fucking sucks. The standard (at GOOG & others) is: 25% on year 1 2.08 & 1/3rd every month thereafter (75% vested equally over the next 36 months) Furthermore, there are other grants that vest quarterly for the first 18 months of employment (in addition to the normal 4 year). Look, I used to work at Amazon. They are the worst paying big company out there. Complete with totally shitty vesting plans. My first v…

Your definition of sucks is pretty skewed. Anybody earning 6 figures is in the top few percentiles of society, especially if you are a new grad! You are obviously free to take advantage of your employability but just remember that you pretty much are the 1% before saying that it sucks. :)

No, he's right, you just misread.

He is saying that Amazon's RSU vest schedule sucks compared to the standard used by Google and others. His income level has nothing to do with anything about that.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#573

Post by vidarh »

albinofrenchy wrote: post #504
enraged_camel wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my response... this isn't the reason we do it. In fact we try to put the position's salary range on the job posting if we can come up with an agreement internally (our hiring is very informal). Or we put "market rate; negotiable" or something along those lines, and put the onus on the applicant to research what their market rate is. Basically, I have a checklist for the first phone interview, and the relevant ite…

So in talking in generalizations, it might not apply to you specifically. But broadly, over the industry, I think its slanted this way for the reason I described. Even here, you ask the candidate for their salary range, instead of just stating what yours is. If the salary isn't posted, it's a negotiation. There isn't a hiring manager alive that will blow off a potential hire because they ask for 5-10% more than the i…

Personally I have never taken only 10% more than the initial offer. I've also as a hiring manager never offered so much that I didn't have much more than 10% to give up in negotiations... Usually I'd have at least 20% wiggle room, and if I really like a candidate I'd fight to be able to offer more if necessary.

For my own part, usually I end up negotiating up at least 25%-30%. My "record" is 50% over the initial offer. Usually I also end up asking for more options etc.

The most unpleasant and adversarial negotiations have been ones where I had to give up salary information at the beginning or have the conversations cut short. They're the only negotiations I've entered into where I've sometimes ended up being lowballed, and the only ones that have failed over salary, and in one case led to me telling a recruiter to fuck off and never me call me again over it. As a result, these days I will tell them flat out that if they need my salary details up front, that indicates to me they are unlikely to be able to afford me, and to call back when they have more budget flexibility.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#574

Post by [deleted] »

ryanobjc wrote: post #413
snake_plissken wrote: post #94

Ieee FML this has been a depressing read. Is anyone else realizing they are severely underpaid? Passes the virtual whiskey

Am I correct in thinking you feel underpaid compared to Amazonians? Because, man, I won't even tell you what people in the real industry get paid :-)

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#575

Post by vidarh »

enraged_camel wrote: post #467
JoshDoody wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This response makes me wonder why you don't just tell the candidate the range you're willing to pay and let them tell you if that works for them. I definitely understand the need to be efficient with everyone's time, but "have the candidate share their desired salary" is only one way to do that. I have heard this reasoning from recruiters many times, but haven't heard a good explanation as to why they don't just tell…

We do that too. We don't have a preference either way, because for us it only serves one purpose, which is to determine if we should continue the interview process. Surprisingly, very few candidates ask us upfront what the position pays. In fact, we've only had one candidate who tried to play the "salary game" (if you will) and turned the question back on us when we asked what their salary range was. Like I said thou…

You may think it is not a game, and I don't doubt your intentions, but it still is a game.

At the beginning you are not invested in the candidate. A candidate that wants to work for you, but wants to maximize salary would be foolish not to try to get you to invest more before starting to talk salary, as it's far harder for you to walk away over 5% or 10% or even 20% once you've decided you have a candidate you like and face the prospect of spending time on another candidate instead.

You have the power advantage that passing the candidate over has less impact for you than it has for many/most candidates, so to a candidate it is far more important to spend the effort of selling you on just them first before talking price.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#576

Post by chii »

spinlock wrote: post #385
buserror wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My reply to the 'our company is doing so well, you will ALSO do very well once you bed in' is to remind them that most notable pay rises you ever get during your career is when you switch job. So negotiate your pay NOW because for all you know, you'll be stuck to that sort of level for X years to come if you are unlucky. As for 'shares' I flatly refuse to even consider that as part of a package. if they want to /add/…

How do you get business. Im thinking of consulting but I don't know where to start in selling myself.

It would be interesting to find out this, because I think contracting is better too!

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#577

Post by vidarh »

mdpopescu wrote: post #521
enraged_camel wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interview techies, and I always make a point to ask them to give me their expected salary range. The purpose behind this isn't to one-up them and pay them as little as possible. It's just in both parties' best interest to avoid wasting time if the expected pay is too high. Neither we nor the candidate want to go through several rounds of interviews for something that ultimately won't work out. And at the opposite e…

On my phone interview with an US company in 1999, they asked me what salary I wanted. I told them "in my previous remote job, I was making $3.25 an hour; I would like $4". They replied "we'll give you $6". (Romania, Eastern Europe - this was about 8 times the average salary.) This was the only time someone offered me more than I was asking :)

I've been on the hiring end of similar conversations. Often the thought process is that you're dealing with salaries so small compared to what they're used to that it's worth quite a bit extra to get someone who is so happy with what they're paid that you increase retention and don't have to spend time hiring replacements as often.

It can be one of the great parts of negotiating with someone located in a much higher paid location.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#578

Post by vidarh »

elbigbad wrote: post #326
stale2002 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There IS another solution to this. When someone asks how much you are currently making, you should flat out lie. They won't check. I've job hopped a bunch, and usually I just take whatever I was currently making, and add 15%, and say that that was my base. If employers are going to play negotiation games, you shouldn't feel bad about playing them too.

I have been asked for proof of current salary (paycheck stubs, etc.) to be included with all my onboarding and HR forms when the current salary formed a basis for my new salary, FYI.

Nonsense like that is why you should never let your current salary form a basis for negotiating your new salary.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#579

Post by vidarh »

Symbiote wrote: post #558
ghayes wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the employee side, I think the alternative is Two week's notice. Not exactly "slaves," but with some structure for how to resign.

In Europe, a month is typical for junior, professional jobs, with this increasing to three months for senior positions. You can, of course, not turn up to work. But that might well make you "unreliable" if you ask for a reference later. But it's not a problem, since a new employer giving a three month notice period will expect you to be on one at present. (The notice period during the first 6 or 12 months is often le…

In Europe, it is much higher than a month in many countries.

E.g. in Norway it is near impossible to give less than 3 months notice for permanent positions without providing additional compensation, no matter how junior the position, except for a typically 6 month trial period.

Before I'd moved to the UK, I'd never even seen an employment contract with less than 3 months.

In practice, shorter notice is often mutually agreed on with or without compensation when both sides agree it suits them, but it's very common to serve out the full 3 months.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#580

Post by eitally »

cperciva wrote: post #550
twright0 wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have to praise Google for the way the situation was handled The original creator of the spreadsheet claimed that she was retaliated against in the form of her manager rejecting peer bonuses sent to her.

IIRC other Googlers chimed in on HN and said that it was normal practice that managers wouldn't allow someone to get multiple peer bonuses for the same piece of work.

And this is, in fact, both true and one of the few pieces of guidance around peer bonuses. The other is that you're not allowed to peer bonus someone who peer bonused you [in the same quarter], for obvious reasons.
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