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Request For Research: Basic Income

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#571

Post by clavalle »

marknutter wrote: post #519
clavalle wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with basic income is that people need purpose, not charity. > I think we need to figure out how to empower people. I don't think anything you've said is incompatible with something like basic income. What could be more empowering than knowing your basic needs will be taken care of? From that position of strength you can negotiate with others based on mutual benefit rather than avoiding the consequences…

The problem is how "basic needs" are defined.

Easy: anything someone needs to avoid imminent or near imminent avoidable physical pain or death.

Food, Shelter, Clothing, Healthcare.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#572

Post by petra »

ryanSrich wrote: post #492
surfmike wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better remote work technologies would certainly help. For now, most tech companies have found that working face to face is really vital.

Perhaps in 1999 this was the case. But technology is no longer a blocker. Often times companies will use this as an excuse instead of just coming out and saying "we prefer asses in seats because it looks good to our bosses".

With regards to remote work technology , we've done pretty poorly:

1. Normal video chat is awful. We can't create eye to eye contact. We can't see body language. It's not very useful to build trust or bonding that way , and this is critical. There might be solutions but they're only availble to very expensive telepresence suits.

2. We haven't managed to create an informal environment via video chat , say like lunch or the water cooler.

3. Working from home requires a lot of self-discipline which is hard . Social face-to-face pressure works better as a motivator for people in general(see battle units) , and it rarely translate well into electrons.

4. Working from home is isolating, and it might be due to limits of the technology.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#573

Post by DominikR »

jessaustin wrote: post #164
forrestthewoods wrote: post #76

Bernie Sanders at the recent town hall meeting asked for someone to tell a story of their struggles. A woman in tears told of how hard it was to get by on $10k to $12k a year. It makes me wonder. How happy will people who only get basic income be? How easy or difficult will it be for them to get simple work for a little extra income? Now there is a big difference in getting $10k for free vs scraping it together from…

With basic income, that woman could quit her current stressful job, get a better job that only pays $9k, and be wealthier and happier with the resulting $19k income.

The basic income that woman would receive is government revenue from taxes. If too many do what you propose then the governments revenue is reduced.

How should the government then fund the next years basic income?

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#574

Post by Swizec »

tptacek wrote: post #358
stcredzero wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equally credible alternatives to university education for professions that don't involve students shouldering $100k-$200k in debt based on decisions they have to make when they're 18 years old. Why not just free university education for people who have the prerequisite academic qualifications?

* There are limited seats available at the highest-status universities, so admission to those schools will remain a privilege disproportionately available to wealthy parents who can pay to game the admissions process. * Simply attending a 4-year university has costs beyond tuition and books; there are plenty of people who don't go to college because they can't afford 4 years out of the workforce. * The 4-year univers…

> There are limited seats available at the highest-status universities, so admission to those schools will remain a privilege disproportionately available to wealthy parents who can pay to game the admissions process.

Funny, where I come from, going to a school that takes tuition means you're too dumb to graduate from a "real" university. Most notably, most universities don't accept for-profit faculties. This means that you can at most pay for a "4 year degree", but not for a "university degree".

I don't know if it's like that in all of, or even most, Europe. But it's definitely like that in all the countries I've heard about from friends who live there.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#575

Post by chc »

crazypyro wrote: post #540
fijal wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College in Poland is free and there are options for very limited stipends which can sustain you (albeit on a poverty level). That did lift me from a poor, but educated, family into the world of computer software and a relatively successful career it seems. As it did for countless of my peers. Please don't discount free education as "not changing much", in the US I would be probably working at Mc Donalds or dealing cr…

That last sentence is almost assuredly a massive hyperbole. The US is not that bad...

The idea that many poor adults work at McDonald's is assuredly not hyperbole.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#576

Post by kasey_junk »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #558
toomanybeersies wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to be a very American thing to not have banking as a basic right (or at least assumed right). Here in New Zealand, there's pretty much no restriction on getting bank accounts. It's almost unheard of to not have a bank account. Transaction fees aren't really a thing either. Most people only have to pay to withdraw money from other banks ATMs. There's no fees for bank transfers (regardless of whether it's to t…

We certainly have a long way to go here. I found it endlessly frustrating trying to get an expense card for my nanny. I wanted her to have access to a set limit of my money to pay for things for the kids but not an endless supply. I wanted it to just be there. I never found any banks that had anything even remotely like that. I ended up just getting a reloadable debit card that I have to keep topping off for her. And…

Thats part of the debit card providers business model. They are making money on the float between the accounts. They are incentivized by this to make it slow.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#577

Post by loceng »

superuser2 wrote: post #150
notliketherest wrote: post #13

When I talk with people about basic income, my gut reaction and primary argument is that it contrasts with that fundamental human nature that's been show time and again throughout humanity - given a guaranteed, fixed reward no matter how much or how little you work for it, disincentivizes work. It follows along the same lines as why government instituted communism fails. Or why the first version of the mayflower comp…

>disincentivizes work Why is this a problem? The market allocates work, the market has decided that a large and growing number of people's work is worth $0, the market is still producing enough to keep everyone happy and fed. Why should someone be incentivized to work when their work has no value? Put another way, we have made an amazing collective achievement: 100% effort from 100% of people is no longer necessary o…

"100% effort from 100% of people is no longer necessary" - could even be considered counter-productive to expect so much.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#578

Post by Mahn »

marcell wrote: post #44

I'm very skeptical of basic income as commonly understood. The typical basic income program I've seen goes something like this: give every person in the country $10k to live on, no strings attached. [a] 1) As defined above, this is horribly inefficient and expensive. I, a software engineer in Silicon Valley, would receive this $10k. How does this benefit society? I already make over $100k; I don't need additional inc…

> 1) As defined above, this is horribly inefficient and expensive. I, a software engineer in Silicon Valley, would receive this $10k. How does this benefit society? I already make over $100k; I don't need additional income support.

So give basic income only to people doing less than the basic income, and take it away once you are doing more. That's how it's been implemented in some countries, and I don't see any reason not to follow this scheme.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#579

Post by xiaosun »

How about instead of using a "basic income" to enable people to pay for living expenses (food, housing), how about cut out the middleman and just pay for food & housing? This could be a system of college dormitories that people can live in free of rent, and includes cafeterias that serve meals free of cost.

Anyone can live there, with some sort of local government oversight. You want to live somewhere nicer? Make money and pay more. You fall on hard times or want to cut costs while working on the next big idea? You don't have to worry about not having food on the table or roof over your head.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#580

Post by wstrange »

Mz wrote: post #494
davidw wrote: post #5

There's a very relevant section in this book ( The Second Machine Age: Work, Progress, and Prosperity in a Time of Brilliant Technologies - http://amzn.to/1KFJ1Iu ) , that I just read last night: > "His view is strongly supported by the work of economist Andrew Oswald, who found that joblessness lasting six months or longer harms feelings of well-being and other measures of mental health about as much as the death of…

So, you want communism or forced labor camps? I don't want Basic Income only to be told where and how to work. If I have to work for it, I want to go find work my damn self that I find palatable. Which is (part of) why I don't want Basic Income at all. (Edited for clarity)

Isn't the whole concept of Basic Income that there are no strings attached?
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