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Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

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Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#561

Post by dragonwriter »

agilebyte wrote: post #559
dasil003 wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same way we always have. What do either of these issues have to do with BI?

I do not know what you mean and what "always have" means in your context. The article asks to get more money from corporations which I do not think is feasible. I am in the UK now and this country decided to go for universal income we would have to either close the borders or convince at least the whole of EU to do the same at the same time. Please expand your comment if you can.

> I am in the UK now and this country decided to go for universal income we would have to either close the borders or convince at least the whole of EU to do the same at the same time.

That's something of an issue of the EU being a union that is very much like a traditional state, limiting -- by design -- the ability of the subordinate elements to effectively manage certain kinds of policy on their own. That's not an issue with BI, that's an issue with the UK as the unit of analysis in considering BI.

You'd have the same problem considering BI in California, for instance.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#562

Post by kbolino »

ppereira wrote: post #526
kbolino wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there was a UBI, then the yearly raises everyone voted themselves would be a significant cause of inflation.

No, because the basic income would be paid for by a tax. Tax revenues increases with inflation too.

And that increase in tax revenue will be offset by an increase in prices, which in turn will be offset by an increase in the UBI, ...

To expound on the point, absent other economic factors, an inflation-adjusted UBI pretty much guarantees that next year's inflation will be greater than this year's inflation.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#563

Post by dragonwriter »

aneth4 wrote: post #548
dragonwriter wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand what "liberalised" employment law means, since it means movement in the direction (if not necessarily to the exact point) you are arguing for in arguing against it.

Well, "liberalised" as a general term doesn't mean anything, so I wouldn't say I "don't understand" it. The language is ambiguous, but you may be correct on second thought.

> Well, "liberalised" as a general term doesn't mean anything

With economic policy, it always means reduced regulation in favor of increased reliance on mutual consent of the parties.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#564

Post by wavefunction »

greedo wrote: post #420
wavefunction wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't, of course we could limit couples to replacement rate of birth, if that's 2.1 for couples or 1.05 for individuals, they could sell a fraction or all of their "right to reproduce" to people who want to have 3 or more kids.

Sure. China loves the One Child policy. No horrible side effects at all. Social engineering like this is fraught with huge risks.

It makes perfect sense that 2 people should be able to replace themselves with 2 people. Nobody said 1 child policy, plus I mentioned a market for people who don't want to have kids selling off their "rights to reproduce."

Your response is simplistic and doesn't even outline any of your concerns about what I've posted.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#565

Post by [deleted] »

thwest wrote: post #553
speeder wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder then, what about the Melanesians that have 6% of DNA of a unique population? Or that asians and whites have wildly different reactions to milk. Or that some diseases only affect blacks, or whites, or whatever? This is not data? People use freely the same techniques to categorize humans, to categorize other animals with significant variations in their species, why only humans you must not use the word "race"…

You've learned anything about the history of race relations and think "race" is a better word to describe that phenomenon than "lactose intolerant"? I'll be right back, going to inform my friends that because they aren't Chinese we can go get ice cream.

[deleted]

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#566

Post by talmand »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #527
talmand wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the reason they are blocking reform on the banking sector is because they feel it wouldn't be necessary if only the Executive branch would actually enforce the laws already on the books that apply? Maybe the reason they oppose abortion laws is because they feel they are saving human lives who have no say in the matter? Maybe the reason they support such amounts of military spending is because they feel it is th…

You are again one of these people going with the notion that since you disagree with the other people's ideas you get to assume that the ideas are somehow bad. Notice that in no way did you explain why these ideas are inherently bad, you simply disagree with them. You are perpetuating the fallacy that they are bad simply because you say they are while ignoring the possibilities that they have good reasons to think th…

Yet again, I'm failing to see your explanation as to why the platform is bad. Nor do you even really attempt to counter the quote of my comment that you provide other than say "not at all". In fact, you ignore pretty much ignore everything I stated. You just continue with the snide comments that do not support your argument; they just stroke your ego and false sense of superiority.

If your ability to win a debate that involves deciding how society should function is based around outliving the people you simply disagree with then I foresee a sad future. Because one day the younger generation will follow your example to disagree with you and put your older self out to pasture as that stupid old person who doesn't know anything.

But I suppose they may be right.

By the way, read your history. Black rights didn't happen in the US because the older generation died off; a few brave souls of the generation that was in charge stepped up to make it happen. Some of them died for it so you should at least have some respect. At least they were able to make a valid argument as to why they were right and not fall back on meaningless talking points that made them feel smart.

Currently, I see gay rights moving forward without anyone waiting on people to die off. Your argument is not only comical, it doesn't exist.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#567

Post by kyllo »

pyoung wrote: post #369
chiph wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly suspect that the Basic Income Guarantee would receive increases in excess of the rate of inflation, as politicians use it to buy votes. I think the $10k/yr figure that was quoted is unrealistic - that would cover food expenses with not much left over for housing costs. Even in a low-cost part of the nation, they'd have to perform work of some kind to earn more.

Ideally, increases would get tied to the CPI, or some other index. I also wouldn't mind a provision that would automatically adjust payments to ensure solvency. Regarding the amount, it should be small enough to make it difficult to live off of. I don't think it would be a good idea if we created a class of BI dependents. There should still be fairly strong incentives to work. I think the main purpose of the BI would…

I think the main purpose of the BI would be to alleviate the need to rely on corporate america as a de facto social welfare provider.

Exactly. In America we still have social welfare benefits, we just get them mostly from our employers rather than from our government, because at some point, for some reason, we decided that we don't want the government to provide them. The implicit assumption being that people without jobs don't deserve them.

Social welfare benefits really should be in the scope of the government's responsibility, not private corporations'. They shouldn't be tied to a particular place of employment, especially as job positions get scarcer and shorter.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#568

Post by spinachthrow »

prostoalex wrote: post #515
dannypgh wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you mention, inflation results in people losing real wealth proportionally to the amount of total (nominal) wealth that they have. On the whole, it's a fairly progressive form of redistribution, as long as wages are able to rise with inflation. It would seem to me that an unconditional basic income could therefore be paid in part through this mechanism, with the inflation caused by simply increasing the amount of…

As a seller of products or services, what motivation do you have to peg the price of your products or services to such an inflationary measure? Developing countries frequently switch to USD/EUR in times of financial calamities, as marketplaces there gravitate towards currencies that preserve wealth, not erode it, which is what you're planning to institutionalize.

The problem with that is that any wealth tax will be at least in part a cause of global inflation (assuming it's a US tax).

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#569

Post by [deleted] »

zxcdw wrote: post #434
Tichy wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The statement "people need to work 40 hours" is already obviously false. There are lots of people who don't need to work, because they already have more money than they could ever spend.

On which fields is it obviously false that the status quo is to work 40'ish hours per week?

[deleted]

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#570

Post by [deleted] »

zxcdw wrote: post #434
Tichy wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The statement "people need to work 40 hours" is already obviously false. There are lots of people who don't need to work, because they already have more money than they could ever spend.

On which fields is it obviously false that the status quo is to work 40'ish hours per week?

[deleted]
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