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Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

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Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#561

Post by Thrymr »

aneth4 wrote: post #472
dragontamer wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just noticed something: your links are "lying with statistics". Everyone knows that if you want to "prove" that Gold is a good investment, just start your graphs at 1970s. After all, Gold reached a glorious bubble of inflation-adjusted $2200+ / ounce in 1970s, and has fallen since then. (yes, even with today's inflated prices, Gold is no where near its inflation-adjusted high). Lets take a more reasonable graph of…

I am saying gold is better than commodities. I'm saying gold is not a "piss poor" investment, as it holds its buying power quite well. That is the function of a conservative investment.

Gold is a commodity.

Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#562

Post by roguas »

lolcraft wrote: post #176

Some people here seem to think that this is temporary, that sometime in the future Bitcoin will stabilize into a glorious future global currency -- never mind the new class of cryptobarons it will have created from its inner circle, through shameless hoarding. My question is, what then will happen when Bitcoin stabilizes, that is, when the time to new coin mined approaches practically infinity? Let's assume the globa…

You seem to misunderstand certain aspects. If economy will grow at 4% it means that people get on avarage 4% on their investment be that work, assets, capital. Its still beneficial for them. Even with deflation at this assumed 4% they will simply invest in things that have better ratio of roi/risk.

Deflation is not obviously bad. We had deflation during the whole industrial revolution and things were running smooth. If people hold on to savings rather than invest suppliers will quote higher prices in order to put the money back into system or hoard the money for themselves.

One thing for sure. You wont be robbed out of thin air and that whats inflation is for. Central bank has no money for retirment... fiiiine, let print more -> market will stabilize itself.

Plus if the value of bitcoin goes sky high. It will be lucrative to mine again. It has the mechanisms of selfhealing.

Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#563

Post by JumpCrisscross »

NkVczPkybiXICG wrote: post #558
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would seem to be the case à la Fisher. But the evidence from Japan, a slowly, albeit steadily, deflating advanced economy is compelling. From January 1995 to January 2010, Japan's CPI (2005=100) has fallen from 100.8797 to 99.5851, or or -0.08% per year. In that time, real wages grew 0.23% [1]. Real GDP/capita at 0.61%. Hell, from 2010 to 2013 their CPI has fallen at 0.27% annually, but the hit has been mixed. N…

Bitcoin isn't that deflationary, and won't be at all until 2140. When 2140 comes around, and all the bitcoin is mined, then it will only deflate at the rate which coin is "lost into the ether" from people losing their wallets, etc. I highly doubt the deflation rate will be anywhere near 1%.

Bitcoins are already rapidly deflating. The purchasing power of a Bitcoin today is a multiple of what it was a year ago. You can see this in its rapidly appreciating exchange value vis-à-vis the U.S. dollar.

Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#564

Post by weavejester »

betterunix wrote: post #559
weavejester wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As soon as a successful attack is announced publicly, faith in Bitcoin will be shaken to badly that nobody will ever want to use anything called "digital cash" for a long time. It's worth noting that a 51% attack would only allow double-spending, and it's not something that could be realistically hidden; it would be very obvious what was happening. In addition, the amount of computing power available to the bitcoin…

"In addition, the amount of computing power available to the bitcoin network is becoming significant enough that it would be hard to exceed, even with a botnet." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TICOM I agree that people may very well use Bitcoin despite a successful attack (plenty of people still use Hushmail), although I think a lot of confidence would be lost. Bitcoin has a lot of hurdles to overcome as it is, and th…

What does TICOM have to do with anything?

A 51% attack is a possibility, and might be currently possible with the largest botnets known to exist today, but it would be pushing it. In future it becomes even more difficult.

Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#565

Post by jvm »

jwallaceparker wrote: post #560
jvm wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't buy groceries with gold or silver coins, but they're a fantastic store of value and time-tested investment. Real value of gold: http://static.cdn-seekingalpha.com/uploads/2013/2/18/1019887... That is very much not my idea of a "fantastic store of value." Not unlike bitcoin, its value appears to vacillate wildly. The S&P 500 looks tame by comparison, and also has the added benefit of a much higher long-run…

I don't know how you can look at your chart and say gold has not maintained its value. Your chart shows gold holding steady with two upward spikes during 1980 and now as hedges against fiat. Also, I don't know what "real gold price" means. Some details of the measurement would help. > also has the added benefit of a much higher long-run rate of return When measured in dollars, which have lost 98% of their value since…

"Real" prices are almost always measured in CPI terms, although sometimes the GDP deflator is used (it was CPI in that chart).

The real value of gold was (relatively) flat until gold convertibility ended in 1971 because the price was being fixed by the western powers under Bretton-Woods. Ever after it's been on a non-stop roller-coaster ride. If you bought gold in 1980, far from its value being "stored" it would have lost half its value in 10 years even if you bought after the spike.

It sounds like you don't value low CPI volatility very much (perhaps CPI goods and services are of little interest to you), which is fine, but many would use CPI volatility as the definition of a "store of value" as opposed to a speculative investment.

> When measured in dollars

No, when measured in real terms.

> which have lost 98% of their value since 1913.

Nobody would suggest that dollars are a useful store of value. They are a useful medium of exchange and in the short term, a useful unit of account.

Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#567

Post by mrb »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #539
mrb wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A few web-based services" ?? Here is a list of more than a thousand merchants accepting Bitcoin: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade And there are a lot more not on this list. Bitpay alone (a Bitcoin payment processor) claims to have multiple thousands of merchants.

Yes, I've seen it. Have you given it a serious look? It looks great in quantity, but would you ever consider purchasing anything for a decent sum from any of them? The only remotely reputable merchant I'm aware of on there is BitcoinStore. Furthermore, there is noone offering general groceries, household supplies or clothing, just niche approximations of those categories. Also critically lacking are complex B2B servi…

If I showed you a list of non-Bitcoin-accepting merchants picked at random, you would almost certainly have the same reaction: you would not trust most of them, because they are all too tiny and you have never heard of them.

You have to realize that the web is a long-tail ecosystem. There are tons of small merchants you have never heard of, while the biggest ones (Amazon, Newegg, etc) are just a few and represent <1%. What you call a "reputable" merchant exclude 99% of all merchants. Plus, the most reputable/biggest merchants will probably be the last ones to adopt Bitcoin (the bigger you are, the less likely you are to adopt a disruptive technology).

Re: Bitcoin exchange rate reached $100 USD per BTC

#570

Post by dkfhcghyyn »

lolcraft wrote: post #176

Some people here seem to think that this is temporary, that sometime in the future Bitcoin will stabilize into a glorious future global currency -- never mind the new class of cryptobarons it will have created from its inner circle, through shameless hoarding. My question is, what then will happen when Bitcoin stabilizes, that is, when the time to new coin mined approaches practically infinity? Let's assume the globa…

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