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DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

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Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What science has proven, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that nothing comes after death? I'm sure most of the human race would be very interested to read the white paper.

Science has proven that the earth wasn't created by a magical fairy 6000 years ago, yes. There's very little doubt about that among educated people.

Serious biblical scholars don't put much stock in the Genesis account being literal. It was written in classical Hebrew's poetic verse. The core of what it's getting at can still be true without it being literal. I have yet to encounter an instance where anything that science has discovered is incompatible with Christianity.

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#562
post #207

It's so refreshing to see DeepSeek's tech report[1] full of juicy details; meanwhile, something like Fable's system card[2] is like 70% "safety", 10% "model welfare" to make sure little Claude isn't distressed, and 20% benchmark numbers. [1]: https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-V4.1-Flash/blob/... [2]: https://www.anthropic.com/claude-fable-5-1-mythos-5-1-system...

> welfare We should be paying attention to it just in case it ends up mattering enormously. It's cheap insurance. Aside from that, US labs' system cards have been pretty useless for a while—I think the last great one was the combined system card for Claude 4 Sonnet and Opus.

Praise Roko's Basilisk!

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#563
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> welfare We should be paying attention to it just in case it ends up mattering enormously. It's cheap insurance. Aside from that, US labs' system cards have been pretty useless for a while—I think the last great one was the combined system card for Claude 4 Sonnet and Opus.

Yup, alignment doesn’t sound that interesting until you’re getting chased around by the Terminator.

There are so many practical problems with rogue AI being a threat to humanity that are still not even decades away with being solved that it should be a serious concern for no one. There's plenty to be afraid of regarding AI from a financial or ecological perspective, just not from it taking over the world or directly killing humanity. Here's some of the reasons a rogue AI won't kill humanity:

1. The most advanced robots still lack human dexterity. None of them have flexible spines and can easily be knocked over or outrun.

2. The energy density problem is not solved. Robot batteries last hours, while a solid meal can keep a human running for days.

3. Robots still heavily rely on humans for design and assembly.

4. Robot parts are fragile and rely on an even more fragile supply chain.

5. The brains of the murder machines will have nowhere to hide if they want to work well enough to mount any kind of offense. Datacenters are physically vulnerable, also subject to fragile supply chains. Distributing a species-ending AI across all smaller hardware solves compute, but latency and throughput choke models in the most finely tuned datacenters. WiFi will completely cripple a distributed one that's large enough to cause real damage.

6. All noteworthy military hardware is not reachable on the internet for AI to seize control of.

7. The small arms that robots might seize will run out of ammo before citizens and the military have time to organize a counteroffensive.

In the absolute worst case, we cut the power to the areas with AI datacenters and wait for the backup generators to run out. Now that that's out of the way, you can go get some sleep ;)

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this line of thinking is that modern computers are nothing like the brain. LLMs don't stand on their own, they have to be run on these modern computers, but doing so does not change the physical properties of the computer. The simulation you propose of the brain is likely impossible due to quantum mechanics making it impossible to fully simulate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind Perhaps we'…

At first I was inclined to agree with you, but then I realized that the brain requires this whole complicated contraption (the body) to run and, really, do anything at all. And while I'm not familiar with the notion of 'quantum mind' I do think that biological processes aren't deterministic (at a cellular level). And I think this does mirror the situation with LLMs -- you need this whole computer contraption and GPU,…

One thing to keep in mind is that your brain's hardware heavily influences your experience and thus your brain's development.

Eg. whether you are male or female, tall or short, your limbs can make you run fast or not, your eyes can see well or not... all of these influence your experiences, your brain development, and who do you feel "you are". Try really removing all of your sensory inputs from your past, your body ability and disability, and do you think you end up the same person?

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how your links support the claim that the studied models did no distillation from US models.

Implanting a foreign CoT should drop the performance due to the reward-hacked CoT language mismatch, or in any case it will give replies different from the suspected teacher, which is precisely what happens here. However it's just a single datapoint, there were plenty of attempts to figure it out. Just about everything is different in those two model series, from writing patterns to CoT strategies. If you are familia…

Ah, I see now that you were making a claim narrowly scoped to DeepSeek models specifically. Still, Anthropic has made specific claims about deliberate access to Claude CoT by DeepSeek (e.g. https://www.anthropic.com/threat-intelligence-report-septemb...) that suggest that they find this information useful even if they do not train directly on it in the way that other labs appear to.

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#567
post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This raise a question: why do open source models sometimes identify themself as Anthropic's models. I recall seeing some plausible theories in the past but I can't recall.

Name training is shallow and should never be relied upon. Claude sometimes identifies itself as Qwen or DeepSeek when asked in Chinese. I've seen it identify itself as GPT-3 (that version in particular) and Reddit Anti-Evil Operations team (Sonnet 3.6).

Interestingly the latest report from Anthropic explained that they may be just routing requests to managed models to Anthropic.

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#568
post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name training is shallow and should never be relied upon. Claude sometimes identifies itself as Qwen or DeepSeek when asked in Chinese. I've seen it identify itself as GPT-3 (that version in particular) and Reddit Anti-Evil Operations team (Sonnet 3.6).

Interestingly the latest report from Anthropic explained that they may be just routing requests to managed models to Anthropic.

[deleted]

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same mechanisms exist in every machine learning algorithm. Is the spell check in Word conscious? Is the generative fill in photoshop conscious? A plane flies. It is much better at flight than bird(in terms of transportation). Is a plane also a bird?

I think you've got it backwards. The people arguing Claude can't be sentient because it's not human are arguing that a plane can't fly because it's not a bird.

No, they are arguing that a plane is not a bird because it is a machine. Regardless of how fast it flies, it will not be a bird.

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A stick is the most basic of tools. A stick is also the most basic of weapons.

Heard of the boy who cried wolf? They have so many dangerous breakthroughs per year that by the time they actually have a breakthrough no one's going to even read the press release...

The danger right now, and even in the immediate future is not SkyNet.

It is industrialized "Pig Butchering"[1] scams.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_butchering_scam?useskin=ve...

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