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Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

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Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#561

Post by JKCalhoun »

epolanski wrote: post #8
conartist6 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very good yesterday, very bad today. I understand completely why nations are not eager to bargain with a petulant child

The problem is more long lasting. The world cannot accommodate 180 degree turns every 4 years in Washington. So anybody that will follow, regardless of the person's policies won't matter fully, as that person itself will be replaced 4-8 years later.

True. But a fundamental reshaping of the laws of the U.S. (who gets to set economic policy for example) could help.

In short, attenuate executive power.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#562

Post by geoka9 »

maratc wrote: post #287
tw04 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I’ve said from the beginning, just ask yourself: what would Putin want? Every baffling, self destructive move Trump makes, basically always aligns to a long stated goal of Russia.

I'm confused. Is he a Putin's puppet or Netanyahu's? He can't be both: these two don't align.

> He can't be both: these two don't align.

They could be both pulling at the strings, often in different directions with varying success. It could even be tracked by the people going in and out of favor with the admin: MTG, Carlson, Gubbard riding high? Russia's pull is stronger. Them becoming pariahs reduced to criticizing the Iran war from the peanut gallery? Israel has taken over.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#563

Post by klm127 »

goodluckchuck wrote: post #233
klm127 wrote: post #207

These tariffs will be struck down as unconstitutional just like the ones Trump attempted under the IEEPA were. Any company who paid in the meanwhile will be compensated while consumers will get the short end, so it will be a nice payday for northern importers. It's Congress who has the power to tax. If Trump wants tariffs he needs to propose a bill that creates them or gives him clear powers. The legal scholars in hi…

Regardless of our different readings of the SCOTUS’s recent opinion, statutes are a poor process for imposing tariffs. The legislative process is intentionally slow and difficult. It’s suited to permanent laws, not diplomacy and negotiations.

Statutes can delegate the president tariff powers and appropriately circumscribe them, and that's what both the IEEPA and Trade Expansion Act did - they gave the executive tariff authority in certain circumstances.

Trump is stretching the definition of those circumstances to the limit, in my opinion, especially because protectionism is the fundamental policy being pursued. If we want general protectionist tariffs than the law should be passed that enables the executive to do so, but that hasn't been forthcoming.

How effective are tariffs as a trade negotiation tool if your counterparty believes its likely the courts will take away the big stick?

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#564

Post by metabagel »

cudgy wrote: post #535
benjiro29 wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*Nobody is willing to help with Iran even on symbolic level* Most people do not realize how much of a shift that is. In the past there was always a ton of EU countries helping the US out, in whatever crap the US started. And a lot of European soldiers died. Those soldiers did not help Europe but the US, because of being allies. Even when some European countries got called names for not helping in Iraq because they ca…

[flagged]

No, they wouldn't. Trump has treated Europe shamefully and built a tremendous amount of ill will.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#565

Post by A_D_E_P_T »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #349
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #238

I get it, but tariffs will only make things more expensive for Canadians, too. I've got a better idea. 1) Repeal all DMCA-like laws. Make it explicitly legal to break a digital lock to repair a device, run custom code, install third-party parts, or just tinker and hack with your own devices and software. 2) Ban parts-pairing. Prohibit manufacturers (looking at you Apple & John Deere,) from using cryptographic seriali…

I'd love this too, but it is impossible. If you believe it's possible then you fundamentally misunderstand how greatly coupled our countries are. A rather large amount of Canadian industry is benefiting from these regulations. Adopting policies like these would be tremendously disruptive and cause a lot of short term issues, upsetting manufacturers, foreign owned subsidiaries (who employ a lot of people), unions and…

> A rather large amount of Canadian industry is benefiting from these regulations. Adopting policies like these would be tremendously disruptive and cause a lot of short term issues, upsetting manufacturers, foreign owned subsidiaries (who employ a lot of people), unions and retailers.

Why?

This didn't even exist until 2011: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Modernization_Act

And how would something like banning parts pairing "cause a lot of short-term issues"? Existing supply chains would remain intact. They'd simply be broadened, eventually, by new entrants. If incumbents leave the market in a fit of pique, you can rest assured that the gaps will be filled, and that those incumbents may very well be liable for breach of contract if they refuse to service existing Canadian customers.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#566

Post by bix6 »

softwaredoug wrote: post #326
bix6 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great dude thanks for defending the klepto king. Really important work you’re doing.

I’m not defending anything I’m trying to encourage people to understand the facts in a forum dedicated to intellectual discussion.

[flagged]

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#567

Post by metabagel »

nativeit-net wrote: post #386

Remember the halcyon days of “earlier this year” when the Supreme Court ruled these tariffs illegal and unconstitutional?

He's using a different rationale, so this would have to be litigated all over again. It's like whack-a-mole.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#568

Post by 8note »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #557
LeFantome wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are both right. The world capitulates more than it should. But the world is also moving away and building contingencies. The world needs leadership. And Canada is helping with that. I do not think that reciprocal tariffs are actually the answer though. They hurt both sides and the US is not a rational enough actor to respond like you hope they will. The answer is in shifting trade away from the US and isolating t…

But what tool do you use to shift trade away from the US to other countries? Tariffs are perhaps the most efficient mechanism.

regulatory alignment is an obvious one

there's plenty of barriers without tariffs holding up trade between blocks and countries.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#569

Post by jmward01 »

We are leaving the time when trust allowed trade agreements that went beyond the maximum minimum with the US. Trust allowed countries to make agreements with the US that had obvious potentials for exploitation, but overall they were followed to the greater benefit of both. Trust enabled that. Now the US has decided to break trust and countries know it. That lost premium means a major loss in value to both sides but ultimately the US will be the biggest looser because the other algorithm here is tit for tat. In a world economy, countries that cooperate will thrive and those that exploit will fail. We are seeing completely uneducated, emotion driven, economic policy play out.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#570

Post by metabagel »

iNerdier wrote: post #242

Reciprocal tariffs alone don’t make much sense, it’s just making things for Canadians more expensive with an adversary that’s larger and can sustain them longer (although how long remains to be seen with guilt yields rising.) If they really want to hurt them start making it legal to circumvent DRM on American products and allow build meaningful replacements.

It's not the U.S. which will suffer but individual companies, which will tend to create political pressure to end the tariffs.

https://www.fastcompany.com/91531349/trumps-canada-trade-war...

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