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The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

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Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#561

Post by inigyou »

esikich wrote: post #242
Aurornis wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I dunno if you can legislate “better parental control ux”, If we must have something, I’m in favor of the OS-level flag where a parent can set the device as belonging to a minor and the apps and browser can receive the flag. Lock it behind the most basic parental controls that can be protected and remotely monitored. There are some loopholes with kids downloading apps that allow custom web requests without the flag…

just add a flag to the OS What a fucking stupid, impossible, idea. Like, explain to me how you think this could be done meaningfully other than some setting that can just be arbitrarily flipped without adding massive complexity.

Why would you exclude the obvious implementation from consideration? You missed one point though: you have to be superuser to change the flag.

This is literally already the law in California and Illinois.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#562

Post by inigyou »

josh_p wrote: post #148
energy123 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t think this comes from actual parents. The polling I have seen from Germany and Australia of a social media ban for children was quite in favor of it. Sentiment here on HN and on Reddit was the polar opposite. We are in a bubble.

Okay, that's probably true.. I'm not trying to call everyone else voting for these things dumb, but does the average person who doesn't think about this stuff for a living actually know what they're voting for?

The average person cares less than you think and also assumes the implementation will be better than it will actually be.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#563

Post by littlecorner »

happymellon wrote: post #433

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but the war on anonymity was first (just) passed in the US at a state level as porn laws before it passed in the UK. Are we pretending that the porn id laws weren't a first attempt at getting forums like Reddit that might "accidentally" have naked pictures liable and therefore profile everyone? Because this is leaning on blaming to UK for everything the US is doing to itself an awful lot…

Which states? How much? Were these anomalous events that were overturned, or more systematic? These are honest questions I'm having, not trying to argue any narrative

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#564

Post by sph »

tokai wrote: post #490
sph wrote: post #486

The fact that the vast majority of comments here are engaging with these campaigns policies on the level of 'protecting the children', is proof enough that the propaganda effort has worked beautifully. It was never about the children, but as long as people discuss as if it were, they have won.

I can't find a single comment here that does that.

Ctrl-F, ‘children’, 131 results.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#565

Post by fauigerzigerk »

codedokode wrote: post #480

Here's my idea how "safe mode" might be implemented without selfie, passport and without every app or website owner having to spend money on compliance. The mobile and desktop OS should have a checkbox "child mode" in the onboarding stage. Switching device to "child mode" allows only installing white-listed apps from the government list and opening white-listed websites from the government list. Parents may edit the…

So under your proposal, all checks would happen exclusively on the end-user device. Websites would do absolutely no age checking, nor would they get any kind of signed certificate from end-user devices vouching for the user's age. Am I understanding this correctly?

Would this not immediately lead to demands for hardware makers to prevent the installation of non-compliant operating systems?

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#566

Post by zmmmmm »

jfengel wrote: post #384
zmmmmm wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the weird thing about it all is that age is a bad proxy in the first place for a child's level of safety in interacting with online content. Some kids are super mature at 11 and others still need protection at 16. For some reason the world has fixated on "years alive" as a perfect measure of vulnerability and now are doggedly pursuing it. Even if perfect age verification is implemented, kids will be harmed. Because t…

I don't think anyone believes that age is a perfect proxy. Just that it is good enough, and that any better solution is either much more difficult or impossible.

> any better solution is either much more difficult or impossible.

I just don't buy that. I think it is perfectly feasible to mandate device makers support parental controls that include content maturity settings. In many ways that is easier than requiring every web site in the world to comply with age verification.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#567

Post by intrasight »

vaylian wrote: post #378
csnover wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Finally, anonymity didn't exist for my grandparents. Your grandparents could walk to the next town over and give themselves a different name and nobody would ever know who they were. They could get a job, be paid in cash, and deposit that money in a bank account with no KYC. They could drop a letter in a public mailbox without a return address, or put up posters at night, or make phone calls from public telephones.…

Thank you for your comment. I feel so many people completely forgot how little data our actions left behind not so long ago.

Little data: yes. Little privacy: yes.

The life sum of data about my grandfather would fit on a couple dozen pages.

But nor did he have or expect to have privacy except within his home.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#568

Post by intended »

inigyou wrote: post #509
intended wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those who defend freedom should do so by being effective at it. The internet was a magical thing when it was introduced to society at large. However this is NOT the same era. If we are fighting for privacy and freedom, then why the heck is ad tech still allowed to be accepted as part of this conversation? If we are talking about freedoms, this is one of the greatest moments to say lets not sacrifice any privacy at al…

I agree. We should make a browser that blocks all ads, and a phone that comes with this browser and also doesn't track you, and all that. It should also ask you if you want the account to be parentally controlled, and if so, to what age.

I’d argue on the idea that parental levels are self set - since that defeats the features goals.

Other than that I would agree.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#569

Post by trashb »

inigyou wrote: post #404
trashb wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No ID checks at clubs, bars, or other adults-only venues. Those are mostly there because of alcoholic drinks being served and the venue wants to create a certain atmosphere. There are plenty of parents that would take their kids there if they could. The rest is not just there for kids but also for adults (or elderly). There is a bunch of adults who would step in a hole in the ground or fall off a balcony.

So why are ID checks necessary at venues that serve alcoholic drinks in particular, out of all the venues that exist?

Because otherwise they can not serve alcohol. This is the law because alcohol is an addictive substance and more addictive if interacted with in younger years as your brain is not fully developed. And "we" as a society deem alcohol consumption problematic as it is associated with risks for other societal participants, like drunk driving accidents and domestic violence. Similarly why you can't enter a casino underage.

The underage crowd can't enter a space that is specifically exists for experiencing the prohibited behavior. Where the internet is a more general space and we are restricting anyone that has not proven to be adult. And what are we restricting them from? Posting/publishing & accessing content, that sounds like age based censorship.

Would someone underage have less rights to receive or publish unpleasant/controversial topics under the First Amendment? I think you need to have a very strong case to undermine those rights and I just don't think "might protect the kids" (which is debatable) is strong enough.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#570

Post by Cthulhu_ »

inigyou wrote: post #557
gorgoiler wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we’re talking 80s, a better comparison would be He-Man . The FTC let the free-market run riot with children’s TV. Shows used commercials to push expensive plastic toys. The shows themselves became commercials for their associated product lines. Parents felt unable to resist the social pressure channeled through their children and congress eventually passed an act that let the FCC reign in the FTC’s damage. In the…

Unrelated, but He-Man is the funniest name ever, and I can't wait for the gender roles people to come out with some series called He-Man and She-Woman.

No need to wait, they invented a female counterpart at the same time called She-Ra. Close but not quite.
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