Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Chinese memory makers have been sabotaged by USA, otherwise they would have already "flooded the market" and reduced the prices. Even so, the production of cheaper Chinese DDR5 memory is increasing despite not being able to import all the tools and materials that are needed, so eventually they will benefit from this memory shortage that allows them to gain market share that they would not have gained otherwise.
I'd like to learn more about how they've been sabotaged. What happened?
The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics
561–570 of 682 posts
Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics
#562Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder if this is actually true in the long-term though. If they were to flood the market with lots of high capacity memory, then I think our programs would start using more memory too. As a result we might end up needing more memory faster compared to if they keep demand unmet. Just consider that a chat application today takes more memory than a full 3D game with thousands of users (including chat) + the operating…
I think that Slack's memory usage is "not bad" at ~300MB just because Discord exists, and somehow that seems to get into the gigabytes before even looking at a message.
Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics
#563Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Chinese memory makers have been sabotaged by USA, otherwise they would have already "flooded the market" and reduced the prices. Even so, the production of cheaper Chinese DDR5 memory is increasing despite not being able to import all the tools and materials that are needed, so eventually they will benefit from this memory shortage that allows them to gain market share that they would not have gained otherwise.
I'd like to learn more about how they've been sabotaged. What happened?
The other part of the sabotage is that western companies then have restrictions on what chips they're allowed to buy from China. IDK if RAM chips are also on that list.
Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics
#564Earlier quoted context omitted.
I listed the reforms upthread that you ignored. All the reforms fit a capitalistic model, not just a free commerce model. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48231586 And of course, Mao's communism was very anti-capitalistic.
All well and good but you still haven't addressed my point which is that China's reduction of poverty is due to its central control of wages, construction, and capital. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48236489
Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics
#565Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder if this is actually true in the long-term though. If they were to flood the market with lots of high capacity memory, then I think our programs would start using more memory too. As a result we might end up needing more memory faster compared to if they keep demand unmet. Just consider that a chat application today takes more memory than a full 3D game with thousands of users (including chat) + the operating…
For older hacker news readers who have lived through multiple RAM price spikes - it has held true for decades so far. Making memory is one of the most vicious tech markets to compete in.
Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics
#566Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's just a snarky way to describe all business investment that requires purchasing things made in the future. It's entirely normal. You could literally rewrite the quote to be about iron and about building railroads for trains and passengers that don't exist yet. See how silly that would be? Except the "profit that is mathematically impossible" part. That's just made up and false. It's entirely possible that we ar…
> You could literally rewrite the quote to be about iron and about building railroads for trains and passengers that don't exist yet. See how silly that would be? Couldn't possibly happen with railroads! https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2016/02/crisis...
Just because some companies made bad decisions doesn't mean the railroad industry as a whole was some kind of mirage or mistake. Laying down tracks for trains and passengers that didn't exist yet is still necessary.
Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics
#567Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's just a snarky way to describe all business investment that requires purchasing things made in the future. It's entirely normal. You could literally rewrite the quote to be about iron and about building railroads for trains and passengers that don't exist yet. See how silly that would be? Except the "profit that is mathematically impossible" part. That's just made up and false. It's entirely possible that we ar…
>Except the "profit that is mathematically impossible" part. That's just made up and false. It's entirely possible that we are actually underestimating demand, and there is going to be tons of profit. JP Morgan says $650 billion in annual revenue required to deliver mere 10% return on AI buildout is equivalent to $35 payment from every iPhone user, or $180 from every Netflix subscriber 'in perpetuity.' Very, very, ve…
Even $100 per month per employee will likely turn out to be quite reasonable, if it can make employees more productive by several hundred dollars per month.
Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics
#568Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, modern software towers of libraries literally eat memory. MS Teams uses around 1000MB of RAM to do exactly the same things that Microsoft Messenger could do in 8MB.
Also 12 processes right now on my mac for some reason. It's haaard to do state machines.
Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics
#569Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not, but if the existence of billionaires correlates strongly with an increase in the median standard of living, I'm all for it. My politics are not driven by envy -- only what consistently produces the best outcome for the most. Regarding the idea that we can design a system where "no one should be left wanting," that sounds nice. So does big rock candy mountain. There is no such system.
> It's not, but if the existence of billionaires correlates strongly with an increase in the median standard of living, I'm all for it. Great, but it doesn't. The gap between the poor and the wealthy has only grown in the US, especially since Reagan's "trickle down" economics. https://www.statista.com/chart/35953/inequality-wealth-gap-u... The accusations against the working poor of "envy" are a barbaric slur. People…
We see similar trends around the world. In fact, the countries that have struggled the most with stagnating standards of living are precisely those that have most aggressively imposed redistributionist policies.
Income inequality with rising standards of living for the median is only bad if your politics are driven by envy.
Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics
#570Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point of my GP post was that due to being one of the world's biggest and longest-term buyers, Apple is already paying very close to actual manufacturing costs + amortized capex because RAM is an undifferentiated commodity. Owning the factory themselves doesn't reduce the actual manufacturing cost + amortized capex that Apple would have to pay their own factory. Apple is already buying RAM at the lowest possible m…
Isn't one of the points of the article that memory manufacturers leave demand unmet for their own financial safety? In which case, nobody (including Apple) is paying close to manufacturing costs. There isn't enough memory to go around and prices are extremely inflated. You're talking about the "best" things Apple could do with their money, in terms of investment returns, but I think that misses the point that Apple l…
They can't buy enough today. I think I already explained this as well as I can in my second paragraph above. You seem to not be appreciating that every decision in this business has a 3.5+ year latency. And 3.5 years ago when Apple made the decisions they're living with now, Micron was selling their furniture (euphemistically speaking). Sinking billions into building RAM fabs would not only have gotten you laughed out of the boardroom, Apple shareholders would have rioted (for all the logical reasons I laid out in my prior two posts). The only scenario where the prudently balanced decision Apple made to not vertically integrate RAM manufacturing looks bad is the very unlikely scenario that actually happened this one time - but that 'bad look' is only temporary because the situation will probably look different 12 months from now (which is less than a third-of-a-fab-decision away)).
Back when I first became a strategist for a public F500 tech company whose products you probably use often, a very wise man took me to dinner and counseled me to never post mortem my decisions on the outcomes, but only on the decision process. In other words, knowing what I knew when I made the decision, did I choose the option most statistically likely to get the desired result - regardless if it worked or failed that time? In highly uncertain games, some bets don't pay off. In my work, if 60% of my decisions came out positively, I'd have been the greatest of all time (they weren't that quite that high). If strategists don't think this way we end up leading our companies to doom by "chasing black swans" (aka unlikely outlier outcomes).
> memory manufacturers leave demand unmet
That's not their plan or desire - it's just the inevitable result of trying to predict both future demand and future capacities of unbuilt fabs on new nodes (every new node is an adventure). Both are rough estimates with bell-curve probabilities and wide error bars. You might imagine the Chief RAM Strategist drags the center of the bell curve so the big bump in the middle is right over their best guess of what the fab yields and market demand will actually be three years from now - perfectly slicing the odds in the probabilistic middle. But they don't. Instead, being a smart, experienced strategist, they slide the bell curve a little bit to the low-side - because very profitably selling everything you can possibly make and regretting the 5 or 10% of demand you left unmet is a far, FAR better (and more survivable) problem to have than sitting on 5 or 10% unsold excess capacity from expensive fab space you paid to build but can't monetize. That extra capacity will often force you to take lower margins on ALL your capacity to ensure you sell through the extra 10%. This is how you speed run becoming an ex-strategist, sometimes of an ex-company.
In short, being wrong on the low side is the best kind of wrong you can be. But being wrong on the high side is the worst kind of wrong, and it's not linear. Every extra percent you go over costs significantly more than the last. If they do their job perfectly, it looks to consumers like "manufacturers leave demand unmet." If they do their job less than perfectly but pretty well, it looks like "RAM's too damn expensive and the idiots created a shortage - what were those morons thinking?" If they do their job catastrophically it looks to consumers like "Woohoo, RAMs dirt cheap. Look at me! I've got so many sticks I'm bathing in them like Scrooge McDuck!"