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Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

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Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#561

Post by JumpCrisscross »

fragmede wrote: post #498
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> difficult to see the Mars announcement as anything but hype Oh yeah, the announcement is hype. But there is actual work underneath it making real progress in science and engineering that moves us closer to Mars. Some of that, moreover, is work that has limited appeal outside a Martian context.

The real thing is that the moon is a better stepping stone, but Bezos already claimed it so Musk had to out do him, which is why he's shooting for Mars.

> the moon is a better stepping stone, but Bezos already claimed it so Musk had to out do him, which is why he's shooting for Mars

They were contemporaenous. Musk was trying to send stuff to Mars in 2001 [1]. Bezos started Blue Origin in 2000 before any Moon goals had been made concrete or public. I wouldn't say either of their goals really referenced each other until after the financial crisis (that is, after they were both comfortably billionaires with launch-vehicle programs).

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-elon-musk-spacex/

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#563

Post by tim333 »

thesdev wrote: post #95

I hope he appeals. Not cheering for Musk, cheering for the fight.

Musk's pinned tweet:

Regarding the OpenAI case, the judge & jury never actually ruled on the merits of the case, just on a calendar technicality.

There is no question to anyone following the case in detail that Altman & Brockman did in fact enrich themselves by stealing a charity. The only question is WHEN they did it!

I will be filing an appeal with the Ninth Circuit, because creating a precedent to loot charities is incredibly destructive to charitable giving in America.

OpenAI was founded to benefit all of humanity.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#564

Post by Veserv »

somenameforme wrote: post #499
billti wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Elon over-hype nearly everything he gets involved with? Clearly yes. Does he also deliver on some mind-boggling timelines? Well Tesla went from delivering its first cars in 2008 to having the best selling car in the world in 2023, and SpaceX went from not having successfully launched a rocket to delivering about 80% of the world's space payload in roughly the same timeframe. So I'd say that's clearly a 'yes', to…

SpaceX also dropped the cost of kg to space by multiple orders of magnitude, which is a part of the reason they essentially are the space industry now a days. And should Starship deliver we are likely going to be seeing even more orders of magnitude drop in price there. Elon made some political positions (which he has always hinted at in any case) publicly clear, and the divisive nature of politics in the US which ha…

A order of magnitude is a factor of 10x. Multiple orders of magnitude is at least 100x.

SpaceX Falcon 9 has a launch cost of 74 M$ with a payload to LEO of 22,800 kg for a launch cost of ~3,200 $/kg to LEO.

So you are incorrectly claiming that space launch costs were 320,000 $/kg. Elon Musk is a habitual liar, but you should try not to be one as well as it demonstrates your argument to be based in ignorance and deception.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#565

Post by sumeno »

ben_w wrote: post #539
sumeno wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has a higher body count than any serial killer who has ever lived with DOGE alone. He may or may not be clinically diagnosable, but he's a monster either way

While I share your opinion on his character, the first part of what you say is also true for almost everyone who wielded the kinds and scales power that was given to him via DOGE: Every battleship is a hospital not built, etc.

There's a big difference between leaders making carefully considered decisions that have life and death consequences and what doge did.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#566

Post by atom_arranger »

Traster wrote: post #510
atom_arranger wrote: post #137

Aside from the disagreements between these parties, what about the precedent of running a non-profit, and then transferring all IP to a for profit when it’s convenient to do so? I wonder if the government or taxpayers have a case to bring regarding that.

Can we just bring some reality to this conversation. The non-profit still exists, it owns a significant chunk of a now almost trillion dollar company, and the for-profit wouldn't be profitable if it weren't for Billions of dollars of investment from Microsoft. There is no counter factual where OpenAI exists as a non-profit and still inexplicably gets handed billions of dollars of compute to train LLMs. The for-profit…

An alternative chain of events might be one where OpenAI, Inc. only operated through income and donations, which would probably lead to them scaling more slowly. They could also take on loans.

Having thought about this whole thing more I believe that non-profits should not be a separate type of entity that gets special tax treatment. People have different ideas of what constitutes legitimate non-profit activity. It just opens things up for tax avoidance and scams.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#567

Post by exe34 »

dylan604 wrote: post #244
exe34 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you are the richest man in the world, you can afford to do things out of spite. But we won't know - he got rid of the people who could have fined him.

It just seems highly unlikely the USG would issue a >$44Billion dollar set of fines to anybody.

No being in prison might be worth more than any fines.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#568

Post by tehjoker »

ben_w wrote: post #550
tehjoker wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a conspiracy theory folks who just Googled In-Q-Tel have been stringing together since Covid. It's not true. ??? It's documented that Ukraine is using Starlink extensively. Golden dome: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/golden-dome-for-america-trump-m... > Wat. Communications are an exception to the lunar treaty that governs the militarization of space. Don't forget that the original space program was designed t…

I believe the "Wat." is directed at the mandated-by-laws-of-physics fact that it adds a 2.6 second lag, and that at constant path loss and frequency it requires antennas have 768 times larger diameter (or close enough, the maths works out that it's the distance to moon divided by distance to wherever in LEO your default case is and all the other things involved cancel out). This factor (and that it applies to all EM…

These are good points. I don't really understand your point about the Hubble though that is very interesting. Are you saying that the pictures are too low-res?

Still, in the case of massive destruction of satellite communications, having 50% availability for crucial communications (e.g. continuity of government) etc. isn't ideal but is still something. 2.6 second lag is nothing if you aren't talking about real-time communications. Issuing strategic military orders isn't sensitive to 2.6 seconds of lag.

You can communicate to half the earth at once, you can maybe replace GPS if all the GPS sats are shot down, etc. Your point about large antennas is taken, but for USG installations, I don't doubt they would invest in a few large antennas.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#569

Post by crossroadsguy »

bambax wrote: post #184
granzymes wrote: post #81

Because no one has commented yet on the legal significance: Musk lost today because the jury found that he waited too long to bring his claims. The jury answers only yes/no questions, so we do not know their exact thoughts, but it is likely they determined that the 2019 and 2021 Microsoft deals were too similar to the 2023 Microsoft deal that was the centerpiece of Musk’s lawsuit. Musk could have brought the same law…

I'm unfamiliar with the US legal system but do they really need a jury and a trial to determine whether the claims are barred by the statute of limitations? Couldn't this be decided by a judge before trial?

I'll piggyback and I'll ask a hypothetical question: imagine a scenario where there's a jury out there and the lawyers proved something almost perfectly, as perfect as something proven by lawyers can get. Now jury goes to deliberate/discuss and for some reason unanimously decides to rule in a way that goes totally against that proof provided - for any reason (maybe just for the kicks, ignore that; because I guess it is ignored). What happens then? Can a judge say to that "bugger off, this is bs" or something like that instead offer their own judgement or have another jury or so? Or is it - tough luck, jury is jury, deal with it. And they can appeal if there's scope of appeal (don't know how that is decided whether one can appeal or not to begin with).

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#570

Post by wagwang »

badlibrarian wrote: post #471
wagwang wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely is, if you arent going to punish someone who hurt my child then I will do it myself.

The state isn't in the business of revenge. It prosecutes crimes on your behalf because private vengeance escalates and frequently lands on the wrong person.

The state literally exists to manage violence, especially revenge. It basically provides "fair revenge" which is justice.
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