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Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

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Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#561

Post by nurple »

drnick1 wrote: post #29
nurple wrote: post #5

> Even after the modem is removed, if you connect your phone to the car via Bluetooth then the car will use your phone as an internet connection and send all the same telemetry data back to Toyota. However, if you use a wired USB connection then it does not do that (see the discussion here and elsewhere), so I exclusively use CarPlay via USB. The problem with this is that both carplay and android auto capture their o…

You need GrapheneOS to sever the link to Google. You can also deny specify apps and services Internet access.

Yes! I run graphene, but still don't connect it to my android auto capable car.

The ability to control network connectivity for apps (and sensors) is really the killer feature for me. Maybe I'll give android auto a shot if I can figure out how to keep it from outside comms.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#562

Post by ComplexSystems »

mmooss wrote: post #287
ComplexSystems wrote: post #140

The reason I think this is a bad idea is that it lulls you into a false sense of security. The article makes recommendations that seem thorough and sensible - keyword "seem" - but, as mentioned elsewhere here, there are other potential hidden sources of telemetry (in CarPlay and Android Auto), and who knows what else. For this kind of thing to succeed as a general lifestyle, you would need to invest an enormous amoun…

I think you can substantially reduce the information collected about you, without an enormous amount of time. Security - and any solution - isn't about perfection; it's about improving the situation and making attacks more expensive. Every HN thread is accompanied by comments saying it's all hopeless.

Sure, you can substantially reduce the information collected about you as long as you don't just give it away somewhere else instead.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#563

Post by fc417fc802 »

tmerc wrote: post #528
fc417fc802 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it keeps collecting telemetry it could upload it later if it ever gets the chance. Better it isn't collected in the first place.

Storage space is limited. There's a black box for accidents that keeps a rolling window of data. That's not the dcm. Outside of that, how much telemetry can you store? What's the retention when there's no cellular connection? And importantly, where is it stored? My guess is that the dcm, having a battery back up and a cellular connection, is also the telemetry store. No evidence other than it's the cheapest and most…

That's an interesting point but consider that bandwidth is also limited when we're talking about an always on system that's in every vehicle sold. And until recently storage was remarkably cheap.

If you log 32 bytes once per second that's only 962 MiB per year uncompressed. But 32 bytes is a lot (or depending on what you're logging not very much), once per second is almost certainly more frequent than necessary, and almost all vehicles spend the vast majority of their time turned off.

For example logging RPM every 100 ms, 8 bits gets you reasonable but not perfect accuracy and you're looking at 300 MiB per year of continuous operation. It's just not much of a storage requirement for quite detailed telemetry.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#564

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

kyleblarson wrote: post #496
King-Aaron wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard whispers at times that people who operate 'off grid' like this end up being viewed heavily as persons of interest. Anecdotally via friends in law enforcement.

I live in Idaho so I don't think that's much of an issue.

You live in ID and you still have an 87 4-Runner that hasn't fallen apart from rust? I'm doubly impressed.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#565

Post by M95D »

GJim wrote: post #531
M95D wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am absolutely sure (even though I can't give a link as proof) that all telephony operators everywhere have to provide a backdoor for the "authorities" in order to obtain their licence. So, yes, a telecom provider will be bending over immediately, or risk losing their licence. I also suspect that in many cases, the operator won't even be informed about the tracking because the gov agencies already have direct access…

What you are referring to is legal court ordered surveillance, which requires a warrant. This is nothing whatsoever to do with allowing anybody who pays (such as adtech) a free reign over your private data to do what they like with!

Requires a warrant officialy.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#566

Post by phainopepla2 »

rdiddly wrote: post #392
phainopepla2 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that's more likely to generate a criminal charge

You're being more literal than I was. My point was that "a debt" is a broader concept than the GP comment acknowledges. A debt is incurred any time you propose or agree to buy something. And legal tender is the way you settle it.

I was making a joke.

But also, I think that most people would not consider any debt to be incurred for transactions where the payment and receipt of goods is done at the same time, like in a grocery store.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#567

Post by BobaFloutist »

lesuorac wrote: post #348
simplyluke wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your CC payments help track Not only that. Them and the point-of-sale vendors (aptly shortened PoS), sell that data. They tend to attempt to do this anonymized. How successful they are in anonymizing that is very much so up for debate. The websites (and even their retail locations) you buy from send your purchase data to meta and other advertisers directly via APIs so they can better track their marketing conversio…

> They tend to attempt to do this anonymized. How successful they are in anonymizing that is very much so up for debate. Yeah I think the big thing to push or talk about is that there is no such thing as "anonymized". There's only such as a thing as "can only be identified as X many people". Like for a given dataset you can make any data point correlated to 1 of say 50 people. If somebody is anonymizing data and they…

I know it wouldn't fix everything, but I think it wouldn't be a bad start to just make it generally illegal to deanonymize data that was collected with the promise of anonymity.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#568

Post by drnick1 »

monkpit wrote: post #412
drnick1 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Graphene community maintains a list of compatible banking apps. Another possibility is to keep an old/cheap, stock Android phone at home with WiFi only for apps like this.

Doesn’t that defeat the point of using an app at all? Use a computer at that point.

No, because some apps are mobile only, and only work on phones "certified" by Google or Apple.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#569

Post by 404mm »

ezfe wrote: post #47

Just a note about Toyota specifically - There are many blog posts and articles out there alleging that Toyota shares your data with insurance companies. As I own two Toyota's I have read through these carefully and consistently the theme is that the owner was opted into this program without knowing it (likely by the sales person clicking through setup steps to enable every feature). If you are not opted in, I have se…

When I bought my 2024 Lexus, there was a sticker on the headlamp saying to push the support call button to talk to a rep if I don’t want any vehicle data collected . So I did and the rep told me they can disable it but it will also disable the SOS/911 calls and crash report if I do that. Choosing my own battles, I begrudgingly told them to leave it enabled.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#570

Post by noir_lord »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #524
noir_lord wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worked in enterprise for most of my career, uniformly the business side asks for every single piece of data possible to be collected and kept in case they need it. They basically never need 95% of it and most of it is never looked at again. That 5% that does gets used ends up been collapsed to a single 100,000ft view somewhere that the decision makers in the company can see it and immediately treat as gospel . Which…

if it doesn't impact the stock price, does it matter?

Does if it’s a private held company or contributes to profitability in either case.

Doesn’t matter to me in the slightest, a company can have all the inefficiency it can afford as long as I get paid and treat reasonably well it is not my concern how they allocate resources.

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