Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

xda-developers.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

561–570 of 694 posts

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#561

Post by ChocolateGod »

simonask wrote: post #546
LazyGooze wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the minute linux solves kernel level anti-cheat is the minute it wins the OS war, tons of friends have only windows on their PCs because of valorant or other multiplayer online game that uses anticheat.

"Linux" doesn't need to do anything here. What's missing is for anticheat vendors to develop kernel modules for Linux in addition to their Windows drivers. I personally hope they never do, because present day anticheat systems are literally closed-source rootkits. You should not let that software onto any computer you own. But then I don't really have a horse in the race, because I don't find competitive gaming with…

> "Linux" doesn't need to do anything here. What's missing is for anticheat vendors to develop kernel modules for Linux in addition to their Windows drivers.

With what stable module ABI like Windows has? There isn't one.

You can build a module that targets the current kernel Ubuntu 24.04 is using, but that module won't load on 26.04, let alone a completely different distro like Fedora.

eBPF /might/ help, but one could make a module that lies to eBPF.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#562

Post by ChocolateGod »

rowanG077 wrote: post #513
Gareth321 wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Linux needs a few things before it will be ready for mass consumer adoption. 1. An equivalent of kernel level anti-cheats. Cheating really sucks. It ruins online games. Kernel level anti-cheats aren't perfect, but they're much better than user-space or server-side anti-cheats. Maybe in the future AI solves this, but inherence-based anti-cheats are likely going to be a cat-and-mouse game. Valve have stated the…

> 2. Immutability. Right now distributing games on Linux isn't distributing games "on Linux." It's distributing games to 12 different distros with a hundreds different configurations and a thousand customisations. This is impossible to support. When SteamOS gains traction, developers will be able to target exactly one distro with fixed configurations and limited customisations. Valve will set the standard for other d…

SteamOS doesn't even ship with secure boot on, it has a long way to go before it's a platform game developers will consider tamper proof.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#563

Post by ChocolateGod »

skydhash wrote: post #531
Gareth321 wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Linux needs a few things before it will be ready for mass consumer adoption. 1. An equivalent of kernel level anti-cheats. Cheating really sucks. It ruins online games. Kernel level anti-cheats aren't perfect, but they're much better than user-space or server-side anti-cheats. Maybe in the future AI solves this, but inherence-based anti-cheats are likely going to be a cat-and-mouse game. Valve have stated the…

> 1. An equivalent of kernel level anti-cheats. Ultimately, you can’t trust the user computer unless you go for the secure boot things backed by a hardware key. I’m sure there are multiple ways to bypass anti-cheats on Windows. > 2. Immutability[…] It's distributing games to 12 different distros with a hundreds different configurations and a thousand customisations Does it really matter? You can always ship a statica…

> I’m sure there are multiple ways to bypass anti-cheats on Windows.

Of course, you can use DMA over Thunderbolt, but the bar is so high (cost, specialised hardware) that most people who cheat won't do it.

> Does it really matter? You can always ship a statically compiled games

This isn't completely viable, you can't statically link the graphics driver.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#564

Post by voxic11 »

Perz1val wrote: post #467
Gigachad wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t see it happening until valve adds some kind of trusted compute environment. I’m imagining online games could have a flag which enforces secure boot, boot chain attestation, and disables multi tasking features. So while you are playing the game it becomes a single task device, but after you quit it’s fully unlocked again to do whatever you want.

You can't block multitasking, the largest multiplayers have huge crowds who play with friends and talk on discord.

It isn't about blocking anything, remote attestation confirms the system is in a particular configuration, but it doesn't actually block you from doing anything you want. The "locked down" part just means that running any unapproved programs or system configurations would lock you out of the game. So as long as the game servers recognized discord as an approved program you could run it while connected to game servers.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#565

Post by ChocolateGod »

LanceH wrote: post #559
simonask wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Linux" doesn't need to do anything here. What's missing is for anticheat vendors to develop kernel modules for Linux in addition to their Windows drivers. I personally hope they never do, because present day anticheat systems are literally closed-source rootkits. You should not let that software onto any computer you own. But then I don't really have a horse in the race, because I don't find competitive gaming with…

You let the people run their own servers and kick cheaters. That's one solution which has actively been taken away over the years.

People just want to click Play and get dropped in a game, not have to mess with servers.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#566

Post by LanceH »

jayd16 wrote: post #549
WithinReason wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there should be just an anti-cheat lobby an a no anticheat lobby

Anti-cheat lobby and a "check out my cheats" lobby. At best you can get no-anti-cheat private matches.

Yea, no cheating on anti-cheat servers. Never...

It used to be an admin would just kick them. Now we don't get to be in control of our own games.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#567

Post by clircle »

I was gaming on Linux when steam first came out for that platform, but there were too many broken games. Tried again with Proton debute, and more problems. I switched back to Win10 for about 5 years on my gaming machine, but the push to Win11 made me want to try linux again for gaming. I installed Guix and Steam, and I am still just floored at how much progress Linux gaming has made in 5 years. Basically every works, and it feels only imperceptibly slower than gaming on Win10. I'm on AMD card, so ymmv!

I'm about to beat Lies of P :)

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#569

Post by notRobot »

ChocolateGod wrote: post #565
LanceH wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You let the people run their own servers and kick cheaters. That's one solution which has actively been taken away over the years.

People just want to click Play and get dropped in a game, not have to mess with servers.

You can just click play on a server without having to run one yourself, the enthusiasts do that. Eg: Halo CE, Armagetron, countless others.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#570

Post by pibaker »

kzrdude wrote: post #487
protocolture wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Given the current momentum, it feels like (to me) the adage of “Windows is for Games” is going by the wayside. I think that games have been a strategic priority for Windows for a very long time. Going all the way back to DOS/4GW on Windows 95. But the impression I get from Microsoft is that they kind of don't want the hassle of maintaining a desktop OS anymore, and they would be happier if everyone went elsewhere.

I think that's the key explanation. Gamers are no longer a mass market user group for microsoft - they target all the casual computer users. Gamers actually want full control of their computer, pay attention to details and care about performance: that's a niche user base, and it's clear why their interests overlap with the linux community: user needs trump everything.

I think you are way overestimating how technically inclined the average gamer is. Most of them just want to play a couple rounds of fifa or madden or call of duty to blow off some steam after work, not to spend extra time and effort optimizing their gameplay experience besides maybe buying a nicer keyboard on Black Friday.

You don't tend to hear them online of course. They are the silent majority keeping the AAA industry alive.

Post reply on HN