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New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#561

Post by arduanika »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #334
Petersipoi wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gp said, "it's a hack" You said, "Whether we think he's a hack", which fundamentally changes what is being discussed. The only reason we're talking about this is because of Banksy. Not because it is a clever or "deep" piece. It's disappointingly surface level, and the fact that we're talking about that doesn't suggest otherwise.

> The only reason we're talking about this is because of Banksy. Baloney. It's a guerilla sculpture put up in the center of London. My guess is we might be talking about it more if it were unsigned as a case of whodunnit. But for me personally, I roll my eyes at all the ex-art students who always complain "it's a hack" for any piece of art that appeals to a wide audience and isn't some obnoxious 8-layers deep meaning…

This is slander! I am not an ex-art student! :)

I would agree that "it's not my bag" is a fine thing to say about some art gallery piece that fails to inspire you, but when a statue is foisted upon the public square, with possible state cooperation, we're allowed to criticize it. He has inserted it into the conversation.

Moreover, the main complaint about this statue isn't coming from some expert artiste perspective, saying that it's somehow unsophisticated as art. The complaint here is that it's making a truly banal political statement. The entire piece consists of making that statement, with little else to recommend it. (Indeed, most political art is hack, unless it's saying something really original or really well, and it's even worse when it tries to be cute about it.)

So here, the complaints are coming from everyday onlookers who might not be qualified artistically, but who are able to say which sorts of statements are tiresome and overplayed in the culture we all live in. We are all qualified to ask ourselves whether this predictable statement advances or degrades the conversation.

Anyhow, FWIW, I just looked up Simon Berger's portraits based on your comment, and I really like them. Thanks.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#562

Post by foldr »

pydry wrote: post #549
foldr wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, but so does Banksy :) (Also, if you're familiar with Charlie Brooker's output, he's not really a 'highbrow' type. He started out in games journalism.)

Im familiar with who he is. At the time his claim to fame was coming up with Nathan Barley, which is why I suspected there was more than a little jealousy there. He got more famous and acclaimed since black mirror.

I get the jealously part, but the highbrow part seems off to me. Brooker has always shown much more interest in distinctly lowbrow art forms such as video games. I don't think he is sneering at Banksy because he thinks we should be looking at the paintings of the Old Masters instead.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#563

Post by nailer »

mr-wendel wrote: post #544

Rather than try to score points for team X (or against team Y), I'll quote one of my favs. Please generalize as needed to suite your perspective. "I don't get all choked up about yellow ribbons and American flags. I see them as symbols, and I leave them to the symbol-minded." -George Carlin

The really interesting thing in the UK is that both team X and team Y absolutely love flags - the right loves putting up English flags in town, the left loves protesting with Palestine and occasional Hamas or Hezbollah flags.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#565

Post by JuniperMesos »

tim333 wrote: post #512
henry2023 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colonized by who?

A lot of Americans like Musk et al get upset that we have some muslim immigrants. You get a lot of this weird we're colonised stuff when it's actually about 7% of the population and we used to do a lot of real colonisation the other way around with British India and the like.

British people were never anywhere close to 7% of the population of British India.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#566

Post by teamonkey »

nephihaha wrote: post #467
teamonkey wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

England has a unique position in the Union, and indeed much of the world, where it is seen as an historic and current oppressive force, and our attitude to flags has to acknowledge that context. In Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland the Union Flag is a reminder that the UK countries are ultimately run by England, where there isn’t a true acknowledgement that the countries are culturally different, let alone able to…

I do not consider myself English, but Scottish. I remember ?fifteen years ago defending the St. George's Cross from English people arguing against it. The irony! We do occasionally get billboards with company X saying they support England, but other than that it isn't an issue in Scotland. Like Billy Bragg says, there is a strong case for reclaiming the English flag from the far right. The Union Jack in Scotland has…

The Union Flag is much more of a right-wing symbol in Scotland, as you say (I lived in Scotland for 10 years) but in England the GC is far more associated with nationalism and the right, while the Union Flag is a bit more VE Day, church fetes and Cool Britannia, and gives more of a “working together” vibe than that of oppression.

Much of that is due to schooling and media conditioning, of course, but the flags mean different things to different people.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#567

Post by arduanika »

pjc50 wrote: post #387
arduanika wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

.. what?

I'm reacting to the supernatural claim -- this lottery in an antechamber before birth. The commenter had likely absorbed that claim from the culture, without ever realizing it could be questioned. (That's how all religions work, not just this one.) My blasphemy provoked outrage and confusion, which is understandable, because we've retrofitted our whole society around this particular supernatural story, and to hear it challenged will naturally cause fear and cognitive dissonance.

Clear enough?

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#568

Post by blockmarker »

mindslight wrote: post #545
something765478 wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Authorities on Thursday placed safety barriers around the statue as growing crowds of onlookers gathered The fact that the statue was allowed to stay up means that the authorities approved it. So, Banksy isn't really counterculture, he's government approved counterculture.

Your assumption that government power will invariably be (ab)used to oppress messages the people in government do not like is a dynamic of fascism, not a universal truth.

We aren't talking about a painting in a private gallery, it's a big object in the middle of the street. If it was actually unauthorized it would be removed, even if the British government respected free speech. If artists could actually place at night their works and not be removed, the streets would be blocked due to the number of statues. This clearly seems to be a sponsored work with typical Banksy marketing, like the work that got half-shredded at its auction.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#569

Post by ButlerianJihad »

ggm wrote: post #2

The point is not just that he's blinded by the flag: He's boldly marching into the void, confident. "wrapped in the flag" is a great saying.

I see that we have presumed the gender and age of this figure, or we’ve accepted the headline as definitive interpretation of it.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#570

Post by mindslight »

blockmarker wrote: post #568
mindslight wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assumption that government power will invariably be (ab)used to oppress messages the people in government do not like is a dynamic of fascism, not a universal truth.

We aren't talking about a painting in a private gallery, it's a big object in the middle of the street. If it was actually unauthorized it would be removed, even if the British government respected free speech. If artists could actually place at night their works and not be removed, the streets would be blocked due to the number of statues. This clearly seems to be a sponsored work with typical Banksy marketing, like…

Regardless of whether the physical placement was authorized or not, my comment still applies regarding the specific content of the message.

Authorization could be done with permits, or just tacitly by the notability of the artist. And while one can kind of do some handwaving and liken the latter dynamic to some mild corruption, that is still nowhere near the level of motivated corruption under fascism. And at this point comments invoking phrases like "established media" and "global bureaucratic regime" have a general thrust of pushing us away from liberal institutions and towards fascism, so I find those appeals quite disingenuous.

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