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Waymo in Portland

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Re: Waymo in Portland

#561
post #4

I've determined that my ultimate dream car would be something like a Rivian but with Waymo tech, so I can drive it manually when I want/need (snowstorms, off-road), but I can also let it drive me across the country at night while I camp in the back. Would absolutely change the way we move across the US, especially if you have hobbies that involve a lot of gear and equipment.

> something like a Rivian but with Waymo tech So a Tesla?

Waymo uses Lidar and radar as well as cameras and so is fundamentally superior to Tesla's camera only approach.

Re: Waymo in Portland

#562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it been shown that screaming drugged out homeless riders avoid the presence of crowds? Is there any physical mechanism where having more people on the trains leads to Daniel-Penny-like suppression of drugged out homeless riders? Or does "getting more people onto the trains" just mean removing their options until they are forced to ignore the drugged out homeless riders? As a solution, "get MORE people onto the tr…

Safety in numbers. There's a reason there's not an issue during the day and during heavy commute hours.

That's what I was asking -- why do you believe this? What is your mechanism for safety in numbers? If it's "criminals fear being observed", that doesn't hold now that catch-and-release is standard practice. If it's "criminals fear being outnumbered", that doesn't hold when the crowd will be prosecuted if they attack. The only mechanism left for safety in numbers is hoping that criminals feel shy.

This seems intuitive to me because I would never risk fighting someone in the street over some crime, so I don't see why having me around would deter them at all. The same goes for maybe 90% of the people I know. We're weak and docile, even in numbers.

Re: Waymo in Portland

#563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to carry people is worthless if no one wants to use it

People generally don't want to use it because we design everything exclusively for cars, so cars are more convenient. At the cost of increased risk of death, increased travel time, increased land cost, etc.

[deleted]

Re: Waymo in Portland

#564
post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah. Now I see why you’re so against it. My condolences. I did get my share of similarly deranged people flipping me off, until I moved out of the Seattle area. Now things are better :)

So the owner of a company makes a Nazi salute in public twice and makes many racist comments and retweets on twitter and you just shrug and buy from the company anyway? You are confirming everything I assumed about cyber-truck buyers. You consider me deranged and not Musk? That is just absurd.

Hey man I don't want to argue anymore. I bought a cybertruck, not a Musk. Musk clearly has some issues and I wish he'd shut the hell up, but in my opinion there's so much to do and be happy about in life that it's a waste of time to get mad and negative about things like car purchases.

Re: Waymo in Portland

#565
post #518
post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yeah, the subpar conditions of ... not being dependent on the car for 100% of your life. The subpar conditions of ... not having to spend hours driving on the highway. The subpar conditions of ... having a choice. I wonder if there are psychological studies on why Americans en masse cannot even perceive the idea of there being other transportation options than cars and (to a lesser extent) planes. Even though in t…

This is in a thread about self-driving cars - spending hours on a highway vs a train makes no difference to me if I'm not steering, except that I'm not packed in with the public, which I don't want. I wonder if there are psychological studies on why non-Americans cannot perceive why trains are genuinely an undesirable solution in the US looking forward in 2026. America could have trains if it wanted to; we don't beca…

I think that a lot of it isn't country-specific at all. People often just believe that the way they do things is the best way to do those things.

That's not usually a problem in and of itself. A person can believe that a Kosher diet is best and that's OK. It's also OK when a person believes that bacon cheeseburgers are a necessary spice of life.

They can find joy in being spread out over an expansive rural property, with room for some chickens and a whole fleet of cars and to serve dinner to 34 guests on a holiday. A person can also appreciate the rote efficiency of a sleep tube apartment and spend their waking hours not in their own space, but in spaces that are shared with everyone.

It's part of the human condition to have strong opinions. It's often OK that these opinions aren't compatible with eachother. It's good to be tolerant of others' ideas and practices.

It only becomes particularly problematic when folks stop being tolerant and start projecting their opinions onto others. Discourse can devolve pretty quickly when that happens. It can degrade to places well beyond "No true Scotsman" namecalling and invocations of Godwin's law -- whole wars have started over differences of opinion.

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Now, of course, there is are local elements as well. For instance, a person who grew up in Vietnam may have a very different idea of what dinner consists of compared to the ideas of a person who grew up in Guatemala.

Regionalized differences of opinion shows up very often in online discussions because people of cultural different backgrounds get to converse together. It's usually OK. Sometimes, it isn't OK.

A lot of the Web is US-centric, or at least in English. A lot of people in the world speak English as a second language because that's the language that Americans use, so that's what they were taught. The news, worldwide, covers whatever it is the US is doing. And when I went to public school in Ohio [USA], where we were taught over and over again that the US is the very best place on earth and were stand and pledge our allegiance to the flag, and our country, every single morning.

That kind of shit all tends to promote an us-vs-them response on all sides, instead of tolerance and acceptance.

That's not a particularly useful operating mode, but it's what we've got.

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Sometimes, it seems like it's fun to make fun of Americans with their big cars and their dumb flimsy houses made of sticks, paper, and stone dust, with the worst electrical plugs that carry the most uselessly-low voltage. (Those Yanks can't even figure out how to build a proper kettle! Look at them, all driving to Wal-Mart instead of just walking to the shops! Wasting away on the freeway commute when they could be enjoying a nice Schnitzel on the train!)

And since so much of the web is US-centric, it's easy to imagine that people sometimes find themselves surrounded by Americans that they variously find to be unsavory. And if that happens, then it may be the case that they don't like that very much.

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But I don't pop in over to European- and Asian-centric online forums much. When I do, then I don't spend any time at all making fun of their cultural or societal differences.

In fact, I avoid starting that kind of confrontation at every cost. I avoid this simply because I'm not a complete piece of shit.

Re: Waymo in Portland

#566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transit in America presents a much higher chance of encountering dangerous people than a private car. Until those people are permanently, irrevocably, and definitively locked up, it would not matter off public transit were free, or even paid users to use it, it will not be a serious option. Nobody in my family is allowed to use public transit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Debrina_Kawam https://en.w…

This is all FUD and extremely unlikely if not improbable to run into someone violent. If you’re that afraid of public transit and people in general, no amount of “rounding people up against their will” would change your mind.

It really is not. I use public transit heavily. The people on it fucking suck. No one helps when someone is being harassed for fear of violence. The US needs to enforce basic decorum on public transit if it wants mass buy in.

Re: Waymo in Portland

#567

I just wish the US would build trains. All I want.

Are trains really less expensive and more efficient than busses? One additional stop to Vancouver WA on the Max train is 22 million a year in operating cost. https://www.columbian.com/news/2024/dec/11/it-seems-so-outra...

You can drive a lot of busses for 22 million a year.

I use the train a lot in Portland and I would not endorse something so expensive.

Re: Waymo in Portland

#568
post #523
post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many private vehicles do you need to provide mass transit away from a mass event such as a stadium, or a concert?

See above comment, why does the number of vehicles matter? I've left stadium events via taxi and ride-share, often there is a queueing area where cars pull up, you get in and leave. It's like a train that takes you home.

> See above comment, why does the number of vehicles matter?

Oh no. The number of vehicles carrying 1-2 passengers through a bottleneck that is entry/exit to the venue doesn't matter at all.

Even though it's a trivial question of capacity and throughput.

Re: Waymo in Portland

#569
post #527
post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you calculated profitability of vehicles after government has funded all the infrastructure for them?

No, but I was pointing out that profitability isn't a very useful metric for selling the benefits of either mode. Otherwise the counterargument would be that transit in the rest of the US outside the Northeast Corridor makes it the exception to the rule. In any case, what vehicle infrastructure does the government fund today that goes away if you expand rail service? I still need to get to my house, and I don't want…

No, the pitch isn't that. And yet in the US inevitably people will always demand to know government subsidies for everything but cars, and will pretend that alternative modes of transport are only proposed as a full replacement of cars. No one is taking your precious cars away.

Re: Waymo in Portland

#570
post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was busy. What is the assumption I’m accused of making?

You assumed they are against density and not just mourning a nostalgic place for them?

If you say you support density but that support withers away at the slightest hint of nostalgia or trade off, or because some old ladies walk in the dead mall sometimes (that was the cited reason), then you don’t really support density.

NIMBYs are usually not against new stuff in their backyard, they really just don’t want to lose the historic parking structures and culturally relevant SFHs already there.

Perhaps you are harboring NIMBY views you refuse to acknowledge and you are feeling defensive? Are you holding onto the corpse of Lloyd center?

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