Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

F-35 is built for the wrong war

warontherocks.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

561–570 of 719 posts

Re: F-35 is built for the wrong war

#561

Post by nalekberov »

celsoazevedo wrote: post #486
nalekberov wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are talking as if war in Iran is a natural process that people have no involvement. Having such articles in 2026 is a shame to begin with. “A piece of equipment” is used to attack living bodies, if you don’t get the point, well.. there is no point to argue with you.

I'm not a native English speaker, so it's possible I'm misunderstanding something (my apologies in that case). Here's my reasoning: - The title is "F-35 is built for the wrong war". - The article suggests that the plane was designed to deal with other threats, not with many cheap drones and missile salvos. That it's a bad tool for the tasks it is now is used for. It's not about war being right/wrong or good/bad. - Yo…

Comparing DIY to war is another level of ignorance.

Well I guess the only thing I can ask you to please stop whataboutism and think about the consequences of the things rather than doing logical check.

Re: F-35 is built for the wrong war

#562

Post by NoLinkToMe »

carefree-bob wrote: post #171
expedition32 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US not going full in on drones reminds me of the British ridiculing submarines. The Chinese are going to spam literally MILLIONS of drones all over the Pacific...

Drones have a limited range and limited capacity to inflict damage. Yes, they are effective at hunting infantry, but you can't reach across an ocean and strike the US with "millions of drones". Relatedly, aircraft carriers are great for beating up on small powers, but they are vulnerable and would not be effective at reaching across the ocean and bombing China. Plus, both nations have nukes, so the idea of either Chi…

> Drones have a limited range and limited capacity to inflict damage. Yes, they are effective at hunting infantry, but you can't reach across an ocean and strike the US with "millions of drones".

I wonder when drone carrier subs become a thing.

Re: F-35 is built for the wrong war

#563

Post by mghfreud »

krige wrote: post #522
jandrewrogers wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing else is remotely as capable in the modern threat environment that most countries can actually buy. That's the cold truth. They can't buy anything else that compares and the best isn't for sale.

They have already lost two in the first real conflict. Doesn't seem like it's all that capable.

Designing for zero loss in a major war is way more expensive than we can undertake.

Re: F-35 is built for the wrong war

#564

Post by GuB-42 »

An interesting piece, but it doesn't tell in how the F-35 is built for the wrong war.

In fact, it is a mostly positive take on the F-35. It is more about how it should be used according to the author than a criticism about the plane itself.

Re: F-35 is built for the wrong war

#565

Post by newsclues »

jjk166 wrote: post #158

> Meanwhile, modern conflict, from Ukraine’s drone war to naval engagements in the Red Sea to Iran’s own mass missile and drone salvos, increasingly favors systems that can be produced at scale and replaced when lost. The F-35 is a masterpiece. But a force designed around a masterpiece is not designed for long, protracted wars, and U.S. adversaries know this. The problem is that the F-35 was intended to be the low co…

Military industrial congress complex

Re: F-35 is built for the wrong war

#566

Post by rjsw »

anigbrowl wrote: post #435
rjsw wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did Britain ridicule submarines?

Around 1900. They were held in very dubious regard in the early days of development. https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1941/january/chap... On British naval luminary compared submarine warfare to piracy, leading to the emergence a few years later of a tradition of Royal Navy submarine captains flying the Jolly Roger after completing successful missions.

Britain had the biggest navy in the world at that point, it didn't need to be the first to adopt the submarine.

Re: F-35 is built for the wrong war

#567

Post by ted_bunny »

kshri24 wrote: post #436
johnsmith1840 wrote: post #287

So none of them lost on ground in Iran. No US ship was to my knowledge even hit by a drone/missle. Iran has been prepping forever for this with Russian/Chinese equipment. This sounds identical to previous arguments I saw of how hard it would be for US to beat Iran in open conflict. China is different but comparing theoretical ability with reality is different also. The only reality we have as of now is that f35 compl…

The blockade is like a nuclear bomb detonated on all countries. 30% of World's oil supply is at risk. Not to mention critical elements needed for semiconductor production. Even the US is suffering passively because of this. Only saving grace for US is to restore navigation in the straits. Quicker it does it the quicker we can stop hell that'll be unleashed on the World. You really don't want to be responsible for 30%…

Sounds like mass famine in the global South would be a feature to them, not a bug.

Re: F-35 is built for the wrong war

#568

Post by pjc50 »

cm2012 wrote: post #352
jjk166 wrote: post #158

> Meanwhile, modern conflict, from Ukraine’s drone war to naval engagements in the Red Sea to Iran’s own mass missile and drone salvos, increasingly favors systems that can be produced at scale and replaced when lost. The F-35 is a masterpiece. But a force designed around a masterpiece is not designed for long, protracted wars, and U.S. adversaries know this. The problem is that the F-35 was intended to be the low co…

A lot of big words, but also inaccurate. If you compare the F-35 to basically any plane worldwide with similar capabilities, it's very reasonably priced. You can see that in that it's very popular for export, with pre-sales already sold out until 2035. There are plenty of articles out there on this for those who want to Google it.

Are those the right capabilities for the price, though?

If it was the right plane, full stop, wouldn't Ukraine be fielding a wing of them? No, because they're extremely cost constrained.

Re: F-35 is built for the wrong war

#569

Post by pjc50 »

hkpack wrote: post #308
gozucito wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what would you rather have? 2000 Shahed/Lucas drones or a single F35? Same cost for both. The saying "Quantity has a quality all of its own" is not obsolete in 2026.

2000 shaheds are just a regular week in Ukraine. 90% of that are destroyed far away from targets and the other 10% do cause some damage, but it is usually far from being devastating as the drone is far from being very precise. A single F35 which could penetrate air defense and go into the country would be a real problem. If Russia has 10 of them, I think it would significantly alter the current equation of power as i…

So why doesn't Ukraine have any F-35s?

Re: F-35 is built for the wrong war

#570

Post by pjc50 »

modzu wrote: post #421
Animats wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine's top drone commander was interviewed by The Economist.[1] He used to be a commodities trader, and he looks at warfare from that perspective. His goal is to kill Russian soldiers faster than Russia can replace them, until they run out of young men. His drone units are currently doing this, he claims. They supposedly lose one Ukrainian drone unit soldier per 400 Russians dead. Material cost per dead Russian so…

christ, sounds like mcnamara. the americans killed north vietnamese faster than they killed americans, so how come they lost?

The difference is, as the other comment points out, the Americans could have (and eventually did) leave South Vietnam any time they wanted with no negative consequences. It was a pure war of choice.

Everyone on the Ukranian side knows that their options are: victory, death, a deeply miserable time in a POW camp, or abandoning their life and becoming a refugee. Regardless of what your rank or social status is.

Post reply on HN