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Author of "Careless People" banned from saying anything negative about Meta

thetimes.com

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Re: Author of "Careless People" banned from saying anything negative about Meta

#561
post #253

It's been interesting to watch some of Wynn-William's claims be vindicated by recent court decisions about the addictive and manipulative qualities of Meta and Google's products. She left the company in 2017, and along with her many other allegations about Facebook and their executive team, had a good amount of information in the book about the reasoning, rationale, and management decisions that led to allowing adver…

She didn’t leave, she was fired. A significant difference.

Hey now, I'm still reading the booK!

Re: Author of "Careless People" banned from saying anything negative about Meta

#562
post #211
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NDAs cannot cover whistleblowing of actual criminality, including sexual harassment, which is why modern NDAs take pains to disclaim that, so they wouldn't be invalidated on that basis. Presumably the behavior exposed in the book, while arguably immoral or amoral, doesn't rise to the standard of criminality.

Writing a book isn't covered whistleblowing. If she wants to go to the FBI or whatever, no one can stop her.

Ms Wynn-Williams has also filed a whistleblower complaint with the US markets regulator, the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), alleging Meta misled investors - which Meta also denies. The BBC has reviewed the complaint.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cq5zyq0250wo

Re: Author of "Careless People" banned from saying anything negative about Meta

#563
post #440
post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Speak to a group of K-12 teachers. > We (as a society/culture) are absolutely giving our children passes and teaching them to act this way. That depends upon where you teach. I've worked in schools where families who would put up with that type of behaviour were an anomaly. The school sends the same message. Of course, one can argue that society is sending conflicting messages. Yet then my question would be: are th…

Yes, it does. I was speaking generally. I think if you selected teachers at random from the entire set of K-12 teachers in America, you'd find more who do have to deal with that behavior than don't.

That's the impression I have as well, but I am also cautious about accepting it. People tend to discuss the bad schools and ignore the good ones. They tend to focus upon the families who don't care for their kids (may they be poor or rich), and ignore the families who do care for their kids. It's easy to understand why. The kids who do act out need a disproportionate amount of attention to keep the system on track.

Re: Author of "Careless People" banned from saying anything negative about Meta

#564
post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting rich has been the American dream for a very long time. Unfortunately, many Americans only pretend to care that it matters how you get rich.

America doesn't own greed. Hardly. But like the movie American Psycho the American presentation of greed is starkly in your face ... it's something horrifying to see

This right here, this is it. You've nailed the reason I stopped caring about what Trump is destroying. Yes, yes he's destroying gestures wildly at everything -- but god dammit we need to destroy a lot of this stuff. We need to rebuild institutions that have failed us, from your local DMV and/or public school all the way up to Congress, the Supreme Court, the Executive.

All of it has been so thoroughly corrupted that it needs to be destroyed and recreated.

Re: Author of "Careless People" banned from saying anything negative about Meta

#565
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's (perhaps unfortunately) nothing stopping you from signing away your freedom of speech.

In a normal society courts should be protecting from signing away basic freedoms

Washington state does this with some parts of tenant law. There are certain tenant rights about habitability (heating, etc.) that are protected by law, and cannot be nullified by a rental/lease contract, even with consideration. The law states that the tenant legally cannot waive those rights.

Re: Author of "Careless People" banned from saying anything negative about Meta

#566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure we can hold individuals responsible for signing these non-disparagement clauses. They often don't have a lawyer to review the paperwork and, I am sure, employers like Facebook aren't going to wait for a new hire to have a lawyer review that paperwork. There's a real pressure to sign everything with HR and get on to starting your new role. Plus the power imbalance.

In this case the author is an attorney, so can presumably understand a contract she signed. And the non-disparagement wasnt in her hire agreement, it was in her severance agreement, in exchange for a negotiated amount of money. Author was wealthy enough to afford dedicated lawyers to review.

> Author was wealthy enough to afford dedicated lawyers to review.

Yes, for the last several years of her career at Meta she was making a minimum of $4M/year in TC, as she mentions in the book.

Re: Author of "Careless People" banned from saying anything negative about Meta

#567
post #563
post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it does. I was speaking generally. I think if you selected teachers at random from the entire set of K-12 teachers in America, you'd find more who do have to deal with that behavior than don't.

That's the impression I have as well, but I am also cautious about accepting it. People tend to discuss the bad schools and ignore the good ones. They tend to focus upon the families who don't care for their kids (may they be poor or rich), and ignore the families who do care for their kids. It's easy to understand why. The kids who do act out need a disproportionate amount of attention to keep the system on track.

The negativity bias is a good point.

I wonder if it isn't so much the absolute number of kids who act out (at least initially) so much as it is the change in the way we've handled consequences? My understanding is in a lot of school systems, it's nearly impossible to hold a child back or to fail them, and that it's much harder to mete out discipline. Even if the number is holding steady, the rest of the class/families are still seeing that there are no consequences for not meeting standards and exhibiting problematic behavior, which is sort of the start of a slow moving poison.

Re: Author of "Careless People" banned from saying anything negative about Meta

#568
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Sign this or starve” isn’t much of a stretch when you think about it

As if Meta employees live on the cusp of starving.

I agree with you there, but I think that may be the only reason this app isn’t cast in a darker light.

I can also imagine that with SF living expenses that there are a lot of people without a big safety net

I don’t really mean for this to be related to any one person. The general population doesn’t have a choice but to sign terms and get the severance , in general, in America

Re: Author of "Careless People" banned from saying anything negative about Meta

#569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a system of laws that decide which private contracts are enforceable and which are not. So we can try to change the law but as it stands we have decided that this one is enforceable. FWIW I agree about not enforcing non disparagement clauses but legally that not the world we live in.

> We have a system of laws that decide which private contracts are enforceable and which are not. And we are arguing that private contracts like this should not be enforceable. > we have decided I have not been consulted on this matter.

Unless you're on the supreme court that will continue to be the case

Re: Author of "Careless People" banned from saying anything negative about Meta

#570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before Zuckerberg loosened the moderation rules in Trump's favor he tightened them in favor of anti-Trump forces (and even using the terms "loosened" and "tightened" is assuming a frame that online speech that politically-benefits Trump in some way is inherently more worthy of moderation than speech that politically-harms Trump, which is itself an object-level political stance). It's probably a mistake to characteriz…

Facebook has always moderated (in those languages where they do moderate at all) according to policies, and politicians are exempt. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/09/facebook-confirm... Joel Kaplan was hired as the VP of global policy at Facebook in 2014, and he was hired for DEI reasons, i.e., specifically because he was Republican. Before his role in the GWB White House, he participated in the Brooks Brot…

> Facebook at the time was uncertain how to handle posts from the Trump campaign, The Wall Street Journal reported. Sources told the paper that Facebook employees were sharply divided over the candidate’s rhetoric about Muslim immigrants and his stated desire for a Muslim travel ban, which several felt were in violation of the service’s hate speech standards. Eventually, the sources said, CEO Mark Zuckerberg weighed in directly and said it would be inappropriate to intervene. Months later, Facebook finally issued its policy.

This is exactly what I'm talking about - Facebook in the late 2010s had a huge number of employees who thought it was morally important to censor speech that they thought harmed groups they considered marginalized (here, Muslims in general), using anti-hate-speech standards as a tool; and eventually higher-ups at the company felt they needed to come up with some reasonably politically-neutral public rhetoric, which amounted to "we won't censor things polticians say directly in the news". This stated policy still made a lot of pro-censorship people mad, hence this 2019 Ars Technica article attacking Facebook for it. Obviously Facebook (and various other social media companies) changed their stated and de-facto policies several times over the next several years in response to the changing political landscape in the US, which is a process still going on now.

Any attempt at all to define community standards for moderation that have some definition of what hate speech even is, is tantamount to making an object level poltical statement. I am opposed to the existence of any private social media platform that even attempts to do content-based moderation at anything approaching society-wide scale.

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