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Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

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Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#561

Post by ehnto »

mlsu wrote: post #161

I just can't get over how short and intense the period between 2021 and 2023 was. There was SO much hype, such stupendous hiring, in such a compressed timeframe. Within the span of like 9 weeks it went from full steam ahead to completely seized. At the same time, the economy at large didn't seem to change very much. Why did this happen?

What was actually booming in though, like why did we suddenly need so many more tech workers? It didn't make much sense to me at the time so I am not particularly surprised by a correction.

The big AI companies don't really have high head counts, and the boom started somewhere before AI got taken seriously.

Was it just that there was access to cheap money thanks to covid era cash rates during that time?

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#562

Post by cozzyd »

fullofideas wrote: post #129
Aurornis wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies have also adopted your strategy: interviewing candidates "to see what's out there" - there's a job I've interviewed for that's still open after 10 months When I was doing a lot of hiring we wouldn't take the job posting down until we were done hiring people with that title. It made a couple people furious because they assumed we were going to take the job posting down when we hired someone and then re-pos…

Honest question. Were these super specialized roles with such specific skill requirements that it took such a long time to find the right person? Looking back, do you think the team would have been better off hiring someone who came close enough, and supporting them to learn on the job?

Some academic departments do this... put a job ad every year in case there's a superstar.

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#563

Post by ta9000 »

TrackerFF wrote: post #253
mariopt wrote: post #171

For the last 2 years I can't even get an interview despited having 14 years of experience and being up to date with development trends, libraries, languages, AI tooling, etc. I don't think the market is flooded with new devs as many state, I think we are in a deep silent crisis

To some recruiters, there's this sweet spot between 5 and 10 years experience where the applicant good / independent enough to hit the ground running, not too expensive, and still young enough to put up with company bullshit.

This right here is the answer. Also a big part of the reason for ageism, which is BS but so is corporate life in general.

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#564

Post by jjmarr »

koliber wrote: post #443
jjmarr wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hosting a Kubernetes cluster on Azure and trying to autoscale it to tens of thousands of vCPUs. The goal is to transparently replace dedicated developer workstations (edit: transparently replace compiling ) because our codebase is really big and we've hired enough people this is viable. edit: to clarify, I'm using recc which wraps the compiler commands like distcc or ccache. It doesn't require developers to give…

You seem exceptionally bright. Most people are not like this. This is why they are struggling. It sounds like you have a job, right out of college, but you're griping about not getting promoted faster. People generally don't get promoted 9 months into a job. I'm reading your post and I am genuinely impressed but what you claim to have done. At the same time I am confused about what you would like to achieve within th…

> At the same time I am confused about what you would like to achieve within the first year of your professional career.

I am in great fear of ending up on the wrong side of the K shaped recovery.

Everyone is telling me I need to be exceptional or unemployed because the middle won't exist in 2 years.

I want to secure the résumé that gives me the highest possibility of retaining emoloyment if there's a sudden AI layoff tomorrow. A fast career trajectory catches HR's eye even if they don't understand the technicals.

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#565

Post by chongli »

gspetr wrote: post #460
mjr00 wrote: post #15

In my experience, tech employment is incredibly bimodal right now. Top candidates are commanding higher salaries than ever, but an "average" developer is going to have an extremely hard time finding a position. Contrary to what many say, I don't think it's simple as seniors are getting hired and juniors aren't. Juniors are still getting hired because they're still way cheaper and they're just as capable as using AI a…

> "average" developer is going to have an extremely hard time finding a position. As was foretold in the Tyler Cowen's eponymous 2013 book "Average Is Over". In it he argued that the modern economy will undergo a permanent shift where "average" performance no longer guarantees a stable, middle-class life. He predicted that the economy will split into two distinct classes: a high-earning elite (roughly 10–15% of the p…

Cowen uses Freestyle Chess (teams of humans and computers) as an analogy, noting that human intuition combined with machine processing power consistently outperforms either working alone.

Unfortunately, this one hasn't aged well. Human+Computer is now consistently outperformed by Computer alone in the chess world. Also, the name Freestyle Chess is now used for Chess960, the chess variant where starting positions are randomized. It has nothing to do with computer chess now!

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#567

Post by windowshopping »

ipnon wrote: post #534
windowshopping wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly have no idea. The last place I worked is pretty well-known. Not big tech, but a recognizable name to most people. I send out a lot of applications: those 25 interviews are the result of 150 applications in the last two months or so. And then I have my linkedin set to be discoverable and looking for a job. Basically just fiddle with the options under Visibility and Data Privacy in the linkedin settings and…

In my experience anyone who went to Ivy+ or worked at Big N never has any problem getting a job.

I did not go to an Ivy, but I did go to a recognizable engineering school in the northeast (not MIT.)

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#568

Post by stego-tech »

overgard wrote: post #440
stego-tech wrote: post #75

It's bad, yeah, especially for folks on the job market (it me). Some statistics first, from my own job search logs: * Since I hit the pavement in late January, I've tracked 100 job applications * Of those 100, only 7 have turned into interviews * Of those seven interviews, 3 turned into second-round * ~50% of all applications never receive a response * ~20% of rejections for any reason have the role re-posted within…

I'm early in my search, but compensation seems all over the place. From the recruiters I've talked to they've been pretty baffled too about compensation given the market. I know one place a recruiter called me about was looking for absolute unicorn talent (like 15 years of experience in multiple very different domains), but their salary was like 70k less than I made at my previous job and when I asked about titles th…

There is a definite compensation mismatch in the market between what workers need to survive, and what employers are willing to pay. You’re not alone in seeing this, even if it’s not widely reported yet.

Hang in there, you got this.

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#569

Post by maldev »

crystal_revenge wrote: post #92
mjr00 wrote: post #15

In my experience, tech employment is incredibly bimodal right now. Top candidates are commanding higher salaries than ever, but an "average" developer is going to have an extremely hard time finding a position. Contrary to what many say, I don't think it's simple as seniors are getting hired and juniors aren't. Juniors are still getting hired because they're still way cheaper and they're just as capable as using AI a…

I generally tend to interview every year to see what's out there in the world (sometimes I find something worth switching for, other times not). I'm not even looking very hard but have had 4 interviews in the last month. Personally I think it's a bit more nuanced than senior vs junior (though it is very hard for juniors right now). What I've seen a lot of hunger for is people with a track record of getting their hand…

Seeing a lot of the same. Never studied leetcode and didn't work at leetcode companies. I could do them, I passed AWS and Microsoft cloud at L5 levels with no prep, but never was my strong suit. But I ship, and I can play politics very well. Especially in crusty organizations. Lots of callbacks, very hot market.

My friends who are "book smart" and leetcode geniuses are struggling. They're my friends, but they come off a bit "off" at first glance, the stereotypical nerd vibe. They're all really struggling since they can't sell themselves properly and lack the interpersonal skills.

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#570

Post by prewett »

qwertyuiop_ wrote: post #545

There are hidden jobs out there that are not listed. Try https://www.jobs.now/

There appear to be zero "C++" jobs within 100 miles of SF, Austin, Chicago, and one at a finance company in Boston. None of those locations had any "React" jobs. So either the job market is abysmal, or those jobs are still hidden.
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