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Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

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Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#561

Post by brigandish »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #484
brigandish wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A standard might be: uses suicide bombers. An even more radical form would be: uses child suicide bombers.

Suicide bombers don't make it terrorism. Were the Japanese Kamikaze pilots terrorists? No--their targets were clearly military in nature. Likewise, was the US pilot that kamikaed a terrorist? No. (His plane had no hope of making it back to the carrier, he could have bailed out but the only possible rescue would be from the very fleet he was attacking. No path with a meaningful chance of survival, as soldiers in hopel…

The point was regarding how to ascertain a population had been deeply propagandized and radicalized and tell them apart from others. Terrorism is, as you point out, not necessarily relevant to that.

The example of kamikaze pilots also works like suicide bombers to distinguish different groups on those terms.

All in all, what you’ve written has the sense of a rebuttal but is acting as support for my point.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#562

Post by brigandish »

thrance wrote: post #400
brigandish wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using one's own children to suicide bomb is no less barbaric than firing a missile? That's not even true in a mathematical sense, let alone a moral one.

Stop using your thought-terminating clichés about terrorism and look at actual stats: > As of 19 November 2025, over 72,500 people (70,525 Palestinians and 2,109 Israelis) have been reported killed in the Gaza war according to the Gaza Health Ministry (GHM) and Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, including 248 journalists and media workers, 120 academics, and over 224 humanitarian aid workers, a number that includes…

Please, be calm and respectful.

Firstly, I haven’t mentioned terrorism, nor Palestine or Israel in particular (though that was obviously mentioned by others). What I have given is a way - I maintain - that will separate any groups based on how far or deeply they have been propagandised. Using suicide attacks is clearly one way to do that.

It can be used with and without numbers, so referring to the volume of death or the means is not entirely relevant. Firstly, because if we accept that the suicide attacker has been deeply propagandised and radicalised, then there is an argument that they are innocent (at least in the sense that they are also a victim) which only increases they younger they are.

Secondly, it is possible to fire a missile at a group containing only people it would be straightforward to justify using force against (e.g. military targets). That is difficult with suicide attackers given the point about innocence made above, and also given the targets for attacks that suicide bombers often choose or have chosen for them (which is why they are associated with terrorism, to the point that you actually misread my comment to such an extent that you replied with a clumsy straw man).

So, take your time when responding in such situations, it will benefit your response and everyone involved.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#563

Post by throw10920 »

kennywinker wrote: post #480
throw10920 wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To say that israel invests in defense is at least 1/4 untrue, since the US sends billions every year. This is factually incorrect. The amount of money that the US gives Israel is completely and totally irrelevant to whether or not Israel also invests their own money in defense. The fact that the US has a problem with foreign influence literally does not matter for the statement above. To be clear, I don't agree wit…

Can i rephrase to help you understand my point? The defensive and offensive capabilities of Israel is about 1/4 larger because of american tax dollars not their own spending.

That's not what you said originally. You said:

> To say that israel invests in defense is at least 1/4 untrue, since the US sends billions every year.

That statement is completely false, and is very different than what you said just now.

If you're going to walk back your words because you were proven wrong, that's fine, but don't claim you're "rephrasing" when you're actually changing your claim.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#564

Post by FunnyUsername »

kennywinker wrote: post #476
LorenPechtel wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want you to think that. There is no way any group other than Hamas could be operating at that scale. It's Hams taking the aid to use it to control the population. It's not like they were actually starving--Hamas never managed to find a legitimately starving person to point a camera at. Every single person they paraded in front of the cameras had medical issues that were the cause of their problems. Just go look…

https://www.who.int/news/item/22-08-2025-famine-confirmed-fo...

IPC had to ignore their own definition to declare a famine though. An actual famine involves at least 2 starvations per 10,000 people per day, among other requirements. According to Hamas' own data, Gaza was always several orders of magnitude short of that.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#565

Post by hersko »

recroad wrote: post #456
hersko wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Country A attacks vastly more powerful neighbor. They have no defensive infrastructure (for civilians), no plans for minimizing civilian deaths, no hope of actually winning the war they started. There strategy is to fight in a dense urban environment among their own civilians while firing thousands of unguided rockets at their enemy, knowing the retaliation is going to be horrific with no way for them to stop it (oth…

Country A is resisting a 75 year violent occupation and apartheid (see stats posted earlier) and currently suffering genocide. Anyone denying that is no different than anyone denying the holocaust - equally vile and reprehensible. But everyone somehow seems to conveniently forget that part. Don't take my word for it, list of apartheid and genocide reports below. The reason this doesn't make the discourse, even on com…

Comparing the holocaust to Gaza is insane. What the allies did to Axis citizens during the course of world war two is far worse than what Israel is doing to Gazans (let alone what the Nazis did to Jews or Japanese to Chinese citizens) and the Allies were fully justified.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#566

Post by montjoy »

cogman10 wrote: post #38
condensedcrab wrote: post #2

From Rafael’s site: https://www.rafael.co.il/system/iron-beam/ 100kW laser is nothing to joke about, but seems a good application for anti drone tasks. Fiber lasers are pretty snazzy.

It's quiet the power requirement. I wonder how long it has to focus on a drone to eliminate it. Like how long is this thing consuming 100kW?

It’s missing almost all technical details, which seems fishy to me. But I’m sure this defense company is honest and has a system that works great and so that’s why no technical details are needed. /s

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#567

Post by recroad »

hersko wrote: post #521
FrinkleFrankle wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, both sides can be bad. They're both led by bad people who do bad things and some good things. I've watched the Oct 10th attack videos. They're horrific. I've also watched the videos of civilian buildings in Palestine being have their roofs "knocked on" by a missile, followed shortly after by demolition by additional missiles.. And the Israeli solders dropping grenades on tents.. And the firsthand accounts o…

It's insane to compare Hamas and how they treat their citizens with Israel. Can you name a single thing Hamas has done to mitigate its civilian casualties?

Sorry, what? Mitigate it's civilian casualties? Are you spewing the garbage "human shield" argument here? The propagandization is complete with you.

- B'tselem is a an Israeli org - https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields

- Former Israeli soldiers - https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-arm...

- Even NY Times - https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/14/world/middleeast/israel-g...

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#568

Post by LightBug1 »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #506
LightBug1 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back when decent civilization was a thing, there were rules of engagement, conduct, the pursuit of security, and strategic goals which didn't include active genocide of civilians. Now, granted, we've witnessed horrible things in wars that don't match up to order and clarity of my previous sentence. But there were end goals that made sense. Sorry, genocide, apartheid and the establishment of a religious-fascist state…

Hamas chooses to fight in urban locations. And keeps the civilians in place at gunpoint. Consider an attack for which Israel was blamed for a large number of civilian casualties. Israel had given warning they were going to hit the building, get out. Reality: Hamas ordered all the neighbors to rush to the roof of the building to keep Israel from hitting it. Too slow, they were still inside when the bomb landed.

Even if that were true - and it's likely true in some cases - the disregard Israel has shown has been appalling. You don't get out of this by blaming Hamas. You simply don't. If you believe you do - I'll be writing you off as a disgusting apologist.

I'm not going to rehash the war crimes Israel has committed during the last two years. It's likely a waste of time as you already appear to be said apologist. A useful tool to those I don't see as any different to Nazi expansionists ...

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#569

Post by [deleted] »

kennywinker wrote: post #497
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminder the UN said it could feed the millions in Gaza more than the 1200+ calories per person Israel was letting in. The UN at the same time only fed the 400,000 Sudan refugees 400 calories per person per day. Lots of politics at play.

Neither of those are enough calories.

[deleted]

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#570

Post by jmward01 »

solidsnack9000 wrote: post #556
jmward01 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Range due to obstacles is greatly overcome with altitude. My point about the 13yo is that -you- think it is unworkable, but a country that doesn't mind the word 'genocide' thinks it is a fine definition. Camera tech quickly went this route right? 'you could mount that camera but we haven't done it and therefor won't' turned into multiple cameras covering every square inch of a city from multiple angles once the tech…

I don't think there is a clear argument that it isn't realistic to be done from a technology standpoint -- in other words, I don't think this laser meaningfully changes things from a capabilities standpoint. The necessary miniaturization and precision are available. Now, you may think I have the facts wrong, here -- that we haven't had the kind of precise turret before, or that we can't deliver small arms ammunition…

My argument is that bullets move slow, can miss causing obvious damage to surrounding infra that shows up on cameras, that they are loud and that minaturization is important to making this a real trend. You started with CWIS which is massive and has a lot of maintenance. I don't have information on the small precise turrets you mentioned. Please provide it. Either way my arguments still stand. What may have not been done in the past because it was technically possible but not practical is now quickly becoming technically possible and practical and therefore will be built. We are seeing minaturization, simplification and movement towards a weapon system that minimizes camera unfriendly damage while also seeing a massive improvement in surveillance identification and tracking tech. The trend is there and it is pretty clear that it leads to a capability to track a city down to the individual and to be able, at any time, to hit a button to kill a bunch of people. This is a capability that will be developed and what is morally right never stops weapons development, just what is practical. We need to have the discussion sooner rather than later about how to handle these weapons on the battlefield and just as importantly how to keep them away as 'peacekeeping' use in civilian populations.
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