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How China built its ‘Manhattan Project’ to rival the West in AI chips

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: How China built its ‘Manhattan Project’ to rival the West in AI chips

#561

Post by Levitz »

palmotea wrote: post #479
Levitz wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather, the US wants its worker coming up with the concept of drones to begin with. Which is how China gets to make drones to begin with. You don't seem to have any understanding of what a service economy is.

> Rather, the US wants its worker coming up with the concept of drones to begin with. Sure, but that idea is too stupid and arrogant to event consider. China's not going to cede that kind of high-level work forever. They'll learn how to do it, and when that happens what will the US do? And then, in the conflict, can your "concept makers" get their implementation done by the hamburger assemblers, with their hamburger…

>Sure, but that idea is too stupid and arrogant to event consider. China's not going to cede that kind of high-level work forever.

The "stupid and arrogant" idea has worked for decades and the only real problem with it is espionage. Stealing someone else's labor is an enormous amount of China's progress, and a good thing to remember when musing about a country's future.

Re: How China built its ‘Manhattan Project’ to rival the West in AI chips

#562

Post by PKop »

snapcaster wrote: post #471
yanhangyhy wrote: post #323

Domestically, we often put it this way: since it wasn’t made by God, we can definitely make it ourselves. It’s only a matter of time — if not this year, then next year; if we can’t do it next year, we’ll just keep going. This is how we approach everything. There is a small caveat, though. China was not actually that far behind in the semiconductor field in the past. The problem was that corruption and fraudulent proj…

I don't disagree with you on the conclusion, but man I just wish people stopped believing in fairy tales about countries like this. America does it too. Why are people so allergic to materialism? I'm not saying culture is irrelevant but saying china's success is due to "Chinese way of thinking" or america was dominant because of the "american dream" is an adult believing santa-tier take. Material conditions shape his…

Does this include the material conditions of human bio diversity? You deny "way of thinking" is itself a material differentiation but could that not be an expression of material conditions over time reshaping separate groups of people to act and think differently, who were through differing selective pressures, environments, adaptations and historical contingencies themselves "shaped" differently?

Or do you yourself have a religious belief in strict human blank slate equality?

Re: How China built its ‘Manhattan Project’ to rival the West in AI chips

#563

Post by kleiba »

NemoNobody wrote: post #544
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is how we approach everything. > This is because it is not only a government policy, but also a Chinese way of thinking. Nothing can interrupt this process. Is there any evidence that this kind of homogeneous "national character" is objectively real? Or is it just another story that people tell themselves?

Google the top 25 cities in China Skylines. Your going to feel humbled.

Very impressive. Here are some other interesting google searches:

- "world-wide coal consumption by country"

- "countries with the most executions in 2024"

- "freedom in the world report"

- "world press freedom index"

- "climate change performance by country"

Enjoy.

Re: How China built its ‘Manhattan Project’ to rival the West in AI chips

#564

Post by reisse »

krige wrote: post #399
dash2 wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They made the most popular RPG last year already - why do you think it'll take 20 years for them to make the most popular shooter? For that matter, the Singapore-HQed SEA makes Free Fire, which topped Google Play in 2019.

Gacha mobages are rarely considered the same kind of entertainment as actual RPGs, and even then the Japanese and the Koreans give them stiff competition. When it's not a skinner box FOMO with titillating skins the Chinese barely register on the radar.

I think OP is about Wukong, not gachas.

Re: How China built its ‘Manhattan Project’ to rival the West in AI chips

#565

Post by butlike »

GuB-42 wrote: post #490
MrSkelter wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

As a non-American, I think that Americans are special in that they have the right combination of hard work and personal initiative and efficiency. To oversimplify, Europeans are efficient workers, but unlike Americans, they use their efficiency not to produce more but to work less and enjoy life. East Asians are hard workers but they tend to favor group cohesion over maximizing individual potential, which is not as e…

I like your takes. As an American, I agree.

The grass is greener though. Europe's work to live, not live to work aligns more with my sensibilities.

Re: How China built its ‘Manhattan Project’ to rival the West in AI chips

#566

Post by hearsathought »

holbrad wrote: post #556
heavyset_go wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To speak to this importance, it wasn't long ago that the sentiment I heard about the country was that it isn't, or wouldn't be, ascendant due to their "culture". It's the Schrodinger's cat of cultures. Or maybe generalities about culture aren't to explain for economic and political velocity.

But it's undeniable that culture and how that's reflected in governance have a huge impact: South vs North Korea.

> But it's undeniable that culture and how that's reflected in governance have a huge impact: South vs North Korea.

Considering that north and south korea share the same "culture", wouldn't they be an example against your assertion?

Isn't the bigger impact that one is sanctioned by the world's sole superpower and the other is not?

Re: How China built its ‘Manhattan Project’ to rival the West in AI chips

#567

Post by mrguyorama »

DrScientist wrote: post #501
foldr wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn’t yet have the jet engine technology to compete with American 5th gen fighters. I certainly don’t think the US or anyone else should be complacent, but the US has a substantial lead for now.

Not sure fighters matter as much these days - Russia has air superiority in terms of jets over Ukraine - but it uses them infrequently - appears the problem is the ground based counter measures are quite effective and much cheaper. If they want to attack by air - drones and missiles rather than planes appear to be the way to go. Similarly aircraft carriers - they can only really be used now to bully small countries.…

>Russia has air superiority in terms of jets over Ukraine

No, no they do not. Russia has more fighter jets than Ukraine yes but that's not what "Air superiority" is, let alone "Air supremacy" which is what the USA designs for.

If you cannot suppress air defense networks, you do not have anything close to air superiority. If you cannot fly missions in an airspace, you do not have superiority.

>What matters is drones and missiles etc and how fast you can churn them out. Who would win that?

Drones and missiles still don't replace airframes. Do not mistake "Is new and the battlefield is still teasing things out" with "Is dominant forever". China definitely doesn't seem to think they are replacing airframes, and in fact is doubling down on making platforms that are aligned with US doctrine, like modern stealth fighters, carriers, and networked battlespace management.

Torpedo boats did not kill Battleships. Battleships were only replaced when their job could be done from longer range by an Aircraft carrier.

>To anybody with significant missile/drone tech they are just massive, slow, sitting ducks.

Only China with their legit Hypersonic weapons has a strong case for nullifying the carriers. US doctrine has included "Defend from 200 incoming weapons targeting the carrier" since the 60s when the Navy first built an entirely automated and networked fleet system to ensure that those incoming get tasked appropriately, and anti-missile defense is never a guarantee, but it works well enough that the sinking of the Moskva was utterly shocking to those familiar with it, and implies terrible things about Russian naval readiness.

The previous threat model of these carriers was supersonic bombers launching high speed cruise missiles 200 at a time from 100 miles out. Shaheds are not a threat. That's why the Navy started running primary 5inch gun practice against them. They are the same threat model as a helicopter because they are slow.

>The current US policy of trying to dismant all the organisations that were set up post world war II

Agree

>in order to keep the peace is madness.

What? That's uh, not what they are doing. See Venezuela.

Re: How China built its ‘Manhattan Project’ to rival the West in AI chips

#568

Post by butlike »

beachy wrote: post #550
GuB-42 wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-American, I think that Americans are special in that they have the right combination of hard work and personal initiative and efficiency. To oversimplify, Europeans are efficient workers, but unlike Americans, they use their efficiency not to produce more but to work less and enjoy life. East Asians are hard workers but they tend to favor group cohesion over maximizing individual potential, which is not as e…

As a non-American, but one who worked in US companies for decades, I feel Americans are influenced by economic gigantism. The American experience is of triumphing with audacious, go big or go home schemes that others wouldn't or couldn't attempt. To cherry pick one example, during WWII the US created airstrips on tiny pacific islands to fight the Japanese. Few people imagined it was possible to freight in the bulldoz…

I often think of the USA as a melting pot in the truest sense. You have a little bit of different cultures percolating and bubbling in the fondue pot. Interesting things can come out of it...

But when the fondue "decides" to melt in a certain way, you get the unified ideas which seem impossible (like your airstrip example). Perspectives from all cultures aligned under one roof, while also aligned in direction.

Re: How China built its ‘Manhattan Project’ to rival the West in AI chips

#569

Post by mrguyorama »

everfrustrated wrote: post #421
vasco wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn't and you shouldn't. You should copy. It's what I would've done also. It's just what it is.

It's also the foundation of the US economy. Look up the cotton gin patent some time. And the early days of Hollywood.

And textile production and the industrialization of New England.

Re: How China built its ‘Manhattan Project’ to rival the West in AI chips

#570

Post by mrguyorama »

everfrustrated wrote: post #422
GolfPopper wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pursuing quarterly profits and forgetting to look up "Forgetting to look up" implies a desire or intent to do so. The United States - former leader of the collective West - made the choice decades ago to sacrifice everything on the altar of quarterly profits. All that remains are the consequences of that decision.

This is slightly reductionist. If consumers _actually_ cared about quality or US-made over price this wouldn't have been possible.

When a manager at GE decided to turn into a bank and get rid of all the making stuff, how was the consumer supposed to continue buying quality things that didn't exist?

When Sears was looted by management, how were consumers supposed to continue purchasing quality stuff from a historic company?

You've got your cause and effect backwards. American companies fired everyone who was paid enough to afford good stuff, and replaced them with workers in other countries, and then those people didn't really have a choice but to buy the junk because it was the only option left on the market and they couldn't afford anything else

What happened was that American business theory abandoned the American worker.

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