Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

the307.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

561–570 of 832 posts

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#561

Post by raxxorraxor »

zug_zug wrote: post #109
dralley wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Targeted attacks against military/militia leadership is not terrorism - almost by definition. If it was just random devices exploding, then sure, that could be considered terrorism. But it wasn't random devices, it was communication devices procured by Hezbollah and directly given by Hezbollah to their own members for their own purposes.

Two things Firstly, generals, like anybody else can be terrorized. Secondly, even if you only kill generals, that doesn't mean you didn't cause terror for everybody else. Imagine for example that Hezbollah found a way to poison the food for Israel's top X military personnel. It would cause a state of emotional terror for many people in Israel about their food safety for decades most likely, even if they weren't in th…

Hezbollah is an organization that tries to destroy Israel. If any law doesn't have an answer to that problem, it isn't worth to discuss legality.

But that isn't the problem here, luckily. It was an extremely targeted operation, generals are military target and know the risks of war. A war that they started in this case.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#562

Post by lm28469 »

zug_zug wrote: post #109
dralley wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Targeted attacks against military/militia leadership is not terrorism - almost by definition. If it was just random devices exploding, then sure, that could be considered terrorism. But it wasn't random devices, it was communication devices procured by Hezbollah and directly given by Hezbollah to their own members for their own purposes.

Two things Firstly, generals, like anybody else can be terrorized. Secondly, even if you only kill generals, that doesn't mean you didn't cause terror for everybody else. Imagine for example that Hezbollah found a way to poison the food for Israel's top X military personnel. It would cause a state of emotional terror for many people in Israel about their food safety for decades most likely, even if they weren't in th…

> Firstly, generals, like anybody else can be terrorized.

This isn't part of any modern definition of terrorism, otherwise war is terrorism, stalking is terrorism, bullying is terrorism &c.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#563

Post by Stevvo »

N19PEDL2 wrote: post #502
justin66 wrote: post #448

Interestingly just nine days ago someone here shared a link to the US's Law of War manual for military personnel. It's pretty good for what it is. Since countries base this stuff on the same international treaties they've all signed, it's a guide to Israel's conduct during war (or just about anyone's) as well as the US's. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46147605 https://media.defense.gov/2023/Jul/31/2003271432/-…

I have questions about the concept of legality in a war like the one between Hamas/Hezbollah and Israel. The idea that in a war there can be legal and illegal actions established by international treaties to protect civilians as much as possible can only work if two (or more) legitimate states are fighting each other, with leaders who can be held accountable for the orders they give. But does it still make sense to t…

On the contrary, you have it completely backwards. Each time one side beaches the laws of war, more on the other side are motivated towards extremism. This cycle is why there is still war between Israel/Palestine after 74 years of fighting; both sides have continually committed atrocities, cementing the cycle of violence.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#564

Post by cess11 »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #559
cess11 wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if that stops your thinking, maybe ponder the illegality of the israeli occupation of palestinian territory then. The israelis must withdraw their people from palestinian territories occupied in -67 and ought to pay reparations for both the occupation and destruction of property, as well as allow refugees to either return to their homes or pay reparations to them. Unless they do this immediately the internation…

[flagged]

And East Jerusalem and the Gaza strip. I'd also argue that the occupations of Lebanon and Syria are illegal, and that taking control over the Philadelphi corridor was an act of war against Egypt.

If you think such crimes of occupation and aggression are "very much needed", then I'll have to consider you morally impaired beyond the ability to take part in a reasoned discussion.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#565

Post by dlubarov »

cess11 wrote: post #553
dlubarov wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICJ has made no such finding. They will probably making a ruling on genocide allegations in the coming years; they certain have not made one yet. The opinions they've issued so far are here https://www.icj-cij.org/decisions

ICJ found the accusation plausible, and did later in another case conclude that the israeli occupation of palestinian land and apartheid is not lawful and must stop. Whether ICJ had found genocide perpetrated or just plausible does not matter very much since international law demands that even the risk of genocide triggers state action to put an end to that risk. The ICJ judgement regarding plausibility also made dem…

> ICJ found the accusation plausible

This is still not accurate. What ICJ found plausible was "some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection". The then-president even clarified explicitly that the plausibility finding was about the existence of these rights, not the occurrence of genocide [1].

Noone is saying things are "jolly fine and dandy", but it's important to stick to facts when making such accusations.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3g9g63jl17o

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#566

Post by raxxorraxor »

mamonster wrote: post #313
HappyPanacea wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it wouldn't, as long as the target is military and you didn't have opportunity to killed him in base it is fine. At most you could complain it is violates proportionality however no car bomb would kill 100 people. Not to mention your analogy is flawed - hezobllah doesn't have any marked bases.

>No it wouldn't, as long as the target is military and you didn't have opportunity to killed him in base it is fine. "Opportunity to kill in base" is completely vague and varies depending on the military tribunal that will try you. Israel has, AFAIK, never said that there was no other way to kill those people. >At most you could complain it is violates proportionality however no car bomb would kill 100 people. https:…

What massive collateral damage?

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#567

Post by justin66 »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #549
justin66 wrote: post #448

Interestingly just nine days ago someone here shared a link to the US's Law of War manual for military personnel. It's pretty good for what it is. Since countries base this stuff on the same international treaties they've all signed, it's a guide to Israel's conduct during war (or just about anyone's) as well as the US's. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46147605 https://media.defense.gov/2023/Jul/31/2003271432/-…

International law, as poorly enforced as it is, needs to have answers what to do with organizations that exist for the reason to destroy another country and that is financed through hostile nations. In this case Iran. Lebanon suffers as well here and Israel certainly isn't the main threat. The Geneva convention doesn't apply to combatants in this case and you cannot be more targeted than this operation. You spoiler a…

> you cannot be more targeted than this operation

You've posted this in multiple places in this conversation, and it's just sort of strange. A sniper shooting a uniformed enemy is "targeted." A thousand little bombs that blow up a bunch of people including some civilians is... less targeted.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#568

Post by raxxorraxor »

Sabinus wrote: post #487
jack_tripper wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military might is the thing keeping the USD the world reserve currency instead of the GBP, EUR or Yuan. It's literally the core keeping the US economy and prosperity. And things don't have to be universal to be true, but just one leader/nation bombing or abusing the shit out of you is all you need to teach you this lesson, and waving the Geneva convention in their face won't help you. The real world is harsh, unfair…

>Military might is the thing keeping the USD the world reserve currency instead of the GBP, EUR or Yuan. It's literally the core keeping the US economy and prosperity. No it's not. The size of the American economy, it's extensive trade, the independence of the Central Bank and the rule of law and commitment to paying debts do that. Americans do not force anyone to trade in USD.

That is naive, it is much more about the US hegemony and mainly about their military might. I would be good to sometimes reach such a state, but as of today it is not.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#569

Post by raxxorraxor »

tstrimple wrote: post #498
jackling wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that Israel has no idea where those pagers were at the time of the attack, civilians were directly hurt by the explosions: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/survivors-of-israels-page...

Zionists don't care about civilian casualties. It's extremely well documented. They even defend the explicit rape of their "prisoners". They will just explain them away as Hamas sympathizers and people will shrug their shoulders and move on.

Some Zionists are some crazy people, some others might have learned from their enemies. Some just want Israel to exist. Some people just dislike Jews.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#570

Post by bjourne »

dlubarov wrote: post #548
bjourne wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule71

I don't see how that would apply at all. These aren't nuclear weapons that take out entire populations, these are tiny munitions used to target Hezbollah operatives.

Well, sucks to be you then, since many legal experts do see how this rule applies to this case: https://opiniojuris.org/2024/10/15/is-it-cake-on-boobytrappe... https://www.ejiltalk.org/were-the-israeli-pager-and-walkie-t... https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/09/exploding-pa...
Post reply on HN