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Homeschooling hits record numbers

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Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#561

Post by brettcvz »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #416
brettcvz wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also this is an area where first principles analysis is likely to lead you astray - I’d recommend starting with SFUSD’s public budget to understand what their cost structure is.

You're recommending I look at SFUSD's public budget when: - that budget is how I was able to calculate per-pupil spend - in another comment you admitted to having 'no idea' where the $28k/year number came from, suggesting to me that you haven't looked at the budget yourself The granularity in SFUSD's published budget is not sufficient to analyze what is useful and what is waste.

I did some research into this - the public budget is actually reasonably detailed. The biggest gap between your analysis and the actual expenditures are the SFUSD faces much higher facilities costs, higher admin cost due to Teacher coaching, and specialized programs for English language learners and special education

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#562

Post by just_mc »

dboreham wrote: post #464
ecshafer wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids are not school age yet, and I am not sure on if I will home school or not. But I do think its possible to get good socialization exposure while homeschooling. There is the neighborhood kids, you have sports and clubs kids can join, religious groups. Plus not all homeschooling is just a student staying at home all day. Some people "homeschooling" I know are groups of parents getting together to educate their c…

Part of "socializing" is observing that one's parents aren't the absolute authority in the world. Parents sometimes butt heads with teachers, coaches etc. No home schooling scenario can provide this experience. I think it leads to enhanced levels of narcissism in both students and parents.

I guess you aren't married. Lol.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#563

Post by sib »

prng2021 wrote: post #546
ecshafer wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids are not school age yet, and I am not sure on if I will home school or not. But I do think its possible to get good socialization exposure while homeschooling. There is the neighborhood kids, you have sports and clubs kids can join, religious groups. Plus not all homeschooling is just a student staying at home all day. Some people "homeschooling" I know are groups of parents getting together to educate their c…

Everytime I see these kinds of arguments, it sounds like someone desperately trying to argue that a park playground is almost as entertaining for kids as an amusement park. Your example of 5 kids socializing with each other is definitely better than 1 kid at home. It’s also definitely worse than learning to socialize in a school of 500 kids each day. This is undeniable unless you have an argument of how a pool of 500…

But it may be much better than dealing with the problems that come with having 500 "random" kids to socialize / interact with. Everything's a tradeoff.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#564

Post by themafia »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #147

I can't say my public school experience was great, I was bullied and didn't really click with the popular kids, but being around a cross section of actual American kids in my age group (my school district mixed middle class with lower class neighborhoods) helped me shape my worldview and learn to deal with people who didn't look or talk like me. I frequently saw fights, so I learned that you just stay away and watch…

> I frequently saw fights, so I learned

So this part of your education was entirely self-guided? And you're worried if children don't see fights and just sort of 'figure out' how to deal with them on their own they won't develop properly?

> I was bullied [...] learned that the BS American value of "popularity" doesn't translate into successful futures.

So the institution valued popularity to the point of allowing you to be abused because you didn't possess it. Another self-guided lesson.

I can never understand why people defend schools. They're terrible environments for learning. We clearly need a school setting for book learning and an _entirely separate_ one for social learning. This seems easily surmountable.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#565

Post by phyzix5761 »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #147

I can't say my public school experience was great, I was bullied and didn't really click with the popular kids, but being around a cross section of actual American kids in my age group (my school district mixed middle class with lower class neighborhoods) helped me shape my worldview and learn to deal with people who didn't look or talk like me. I frequently saw fights, so I learned that you just stay away and watch…

> I worry this move to homeschooling and micromanaging children's social lives just creates bubbles and makes children incapable of interacting with those outside of them.

Most research does not support the idea that homeschooling inherently creates social bubbles or makes children unable to interact with others. Studies generally find that homeschooled children perform as well as or better than traditionally schooled peers on standardized social skills measures and often participate actively in community groups, sports, etc. Long term studies of adults who were homeschooled also show no meaningful deficits in life outcomes or social functioning. The main caveat is that homeschooling varies widely: children in highly isolated or restrictive environments may have fewer opportunities to practice mainstream social norms, but this is a function of the specific homeschooling approach, not homeschooling as a whole. Overall, the literature suggests that social problems arise from lack of social exposure not from homeschooling itself.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#566

Post by pyuser583 »

kachapopopow wrote: post #442
pyuser583 wrote: post #390

I used to teach high school. The amount of time I spent doing crap work was insane. It was necessary. If you don’t remind students 100 times what the assignments are, they won’t do them. You also have to spend an insane amount of time with the lowest performers, because with enough attention, they can improve dramatically. But this creates tradeoffs. Should I neglect the students doing best? One on one instruction is…

well if we just apply the bell curve here, on average children will be pretty average (shocker) so those should be left on their own and discover their own niche while bad performers should get extra attention so they can keep up with the rest and with the gifted (if they actually want to) given the opportunity to explore higher level subjects. so in the end we give attention to gifted and the struggling since there'…

Gifted and average students who aren’t given attention become poor performers quickly.

Gifted students especially.

Students who learn ahead don’t want to be told: “ok you have the material, so I’ll ignore you for a bit.” They want more. They want their questions answered, even if the questions aren’t part of the lesson plan.

Nobody wants to be told “we aren’t studying that today.”

You really can’t starve the rest of the class to cater to poor performers.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#567

Post by only-one1701 »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #462
sejje wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work at a YMCA, and the local homeschool group asked us to do a PE class, which I taught. I had the kids doing swimming, rock climbing, and all kinds of traditional PE games. I worked with "normal" kids most of the time, and I will say the homeschool kids stuck out. They're more awkward around kids their age, but far less awkward around adults. They know how to speak and act, in large part. And they were di…

> They're more awkward around kids their age, but far less awkward around adults. They know how to speak and act, in large part. This is another argument that "by age" is not the best way to find one's academic or social peers. Some people in 2nd grade should be in high school. Some people in high school should be in 2nd grade. (And, academically, sometimes that's different by subject; some people need to be in 2nd g…

This is one of the most insane comments I’ve ever read on a hackernews story. Age is very much important when finding one’s social peers as a child.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#568

Post by only-one1701 »

sib wrote: post #563
prng2021 wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everytime I see these kinds of arguments, it sounds like someone desperately trying to argue that a park playground is almost as entertaining for kids as an amusement park. Your example of 5 kids socializing with each other is definitely better than 1 kid at home. It’s also definitely worse than learning to socialize in a school of 500 kids each day. This is undeniable unless you have an argument of how a pool of 500…

But it may be much better than dealing with the problems that come with having 500 "random" kids to socialize / interact with. Everything's a tradeoff.

Yeah, wouldn’t want kids to learn how to deal with problems.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#569

Post by nlavezzo »

MarkMarine wrote: post #436
ecshafer wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids are not school age yet, and I am not sure on if I will home school or not. But I do think its possible to get good socialization exposure while homeschooling. There is the neighborhood kids, you have sports and clubs kids can join, religious groups. Plus not all homeschooling is just a student staying at home all day. Some people "homeschooling" I know are groups of parents getting together to educate their c…

There is no such thing as “the neighborhood kids” anymore. Having any kind of social circle for your children is going to require your facilitation and effort… a lot of it. It’ll be extra hard without the common bond of shared activity. Not knocking what sounds like your choice to homeschool, just sharing something that has changed from my youth.

There are in fact neighborhood kids. It only takes a couple of families deciding to restrict phones and video games and support their kids in spending real time together. We’ve done this in our neighborhood and it’s great. It just has to be intentional now, where it was the default before all these screens.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#570

Post by gregjor »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #147

I can't say my public school experience was great, I was bullied and didn't really click with the popular kids, but being around a cross section of actual American kids in my age group (my school district mixed middle class with lower class neighborhoods) helped me shape my worldview and learn to deal with people who didn't look or talk like me. I frequently saw fights, so I learned that you just stay away and watch…

> I worry this move to homeschooling and micromanaging children's social lives just creates bubbles and makes children incapable of interacting with those outside of them.

We already have this problem with the population at large, only a tiny minority of whom got homeschooled.

Right here on HN you can read daily accounts of severe introversion and social anxiety. You can see that out in public, at work, among friends and family. Many Americans, children and adults, take medications (licit and otherwise) to cope with anxiety and things like ADHD. Many Americans self-diagnose as "on the spectrum" and "introverted."

Do you have any evidence to support the idea that homeschooled children suffer more from these common afflictions?

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