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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#561

Post by crazygringo »

handoflixue wrote: post #114
crazygringo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems are nowhere near actionable. A lot more information is needed. E.g. literally the first bullet: "It doesn't follow our translation guidelines". OK -- where are those guidelines? Is there a way to get it to follow them, like another commenter says works? Does the person need help following the process for that? Or is there a bug? Etc. These are the things a call can clarify. It's the necessary first step,…

> where are those guidelines? It's entirely possible that such information is well-known to everyone involved in the translation community. I would consider it outright insulting if someone who ostensibly "wants to help" doesn't know basic information like that - if the people making decisions about SumoBot are NOT aware of basic information like "where to find the local translation guidelines" then they are presumab…

It's also entirely possible that the Japanese translation team didn't put the guidelines in the right place for the bot to follow them. Or there's a bug. Since another commenter says it's following guidelines just fine.

> I would consider it outright insulting if someone who ostensibly "wants to help" doesn't know basic information like that

Well, the person who wants to help is a customer service manager in Indonesia. They presumably are not the leader of the machine translation product. They are trying to get more information so they can, you know, escalate to the right people.

So how is that "outright insulting"?

Re: End of Japanese community

#562

Post by wartywhoa23 »

ezoe wrote: post #551
wartywhoa23 wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creative Commons License was created without any AI in mind. And > Licensees may copy, distribute, display, perform and make derivative works and remixes based on it only if they GIVE THE AUTHOR or licensor THE CREDITS

Is an ML model binary file created by using copyrighted work as its learning data, a derivative work of the copyrighted work? I don't think so.

If one takes another's work, cuts it up and makes collages out of it, however multidimensional, what is the piece size threshold that makes the collage non-derivative?

Re: End of Japanese community

#563

Post by SirHumphrey »

joegibbs wrote: post #91
gyomu wrote: post #18

As a multilingual/multicultural human it’s been pretty weird witnessing what AI translation has been doing to regional languages & cultures on the internet in the last few years. Sure we had machine translation before, but it was still a little off. Now the latest language models get us 99.9% there, so they are judged good enough to deploy at scale. What results is a weird twilight zone where everything is in your la…

How do the models do if you ask them to translate to X language and adapt the text to suit cultural norms and idioms?

At least in my experience poorly. As a reference I speak one of the smaller European languages and what is interesting that newer models tend to do worse, but what all of them struggle with and is very hard to control using prompting is tone.

Formal language in American English is very friendly, very sweet, to an extent that my language is not. Any piece of text therefore sounds like a psychopath is trying to manipulate you.

Re: End of Japanese community

#564

Post by crazygringo »

StarGrit wrote: post #181
crazygringo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - No apology - No "we stopped the bot for now" "We're sorry for how you feel" is enterprise for "we think you're whining". Anyways the point is just that one side of this relationship here clearly cares about the problem way less, and _even when presented with that fact_, does not even pretend to be actually sorry for the damage they are causing. This is just a single initial reply from a "community support manager…

It is well known passive aggressive corporate phrase to shut people up. Who it is used by is largely irrelevant, it almost always means the same thing.

It's also well-known language from product managers and UX researchers trying to gather data to improve their product. And well-known language from customer support people trying to gather more information in order to escalate to the right people who can help.

Your knee-jerk cynicism saddens me. If someone doesn't want to help, they generally just ignore. They generally don't suggest hopping on a call ASAP. When they want to call you is when they're taking it seriously.

Re: End of Japanese community

#565

Post by freedomben »

hitarpetar wrote: post #517
braiamp wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, if someone is saying "hey we will pack up, we have nothing to do here" out of the blue, I would like a more nuanced conversation that written text could not hope to convey. We are humans and while reading is perfectly capable of relying information, it's unable to rely intention accurately. There's ton of information that is conveyed by the inflection of voice, demeanor, body language, etc.

> There's ton of information that is conveyed by the inflection of voice, demeanor, body language, etc. information which mostly gets scrambled by a phone or video call

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. A video call is obviously better for conveying voice, demeanor, and body language, than is written text in a forum.

I absolutely loathe when companies do the "let's jump on a call" thing, but this does seem like a pretty exceptional case where a call would be indeed very helpful. This is also an opportunity for him to get directly in front of people at Mozilla to voice his concerns. There's a high probability of impact here, which to me seems very much worth the 15 or 30 minutes or however long it takes to jump on a call.

Re: End of Japanese community

#566

Post by tsimionescu »

tw04 wrote: post #447
tsimionescu wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were some small bug report, even from someone pretty ticked off, I'd agree. But this is a response to someone who has just announced that they are quitting an organization they had spent 20 years of their life volunteering for, because of the disrespect they have felt from the org. This is not a "hop on a call" moment. This is a "please accept to meet so I can apologize in person, and see if we can repair thi…

And I’d say claiming that she should hop on an 8 hour flight from Jakarta to Japan to apologize for a decision she didn’t make is more than a bit overly dramatic.

I wasn't suggesting it should be an in person meeting, just that it should be a more formal call.

Re: End of Japanese community

#567

Post by surajrmal »

ACCount37 wrote: post #559
trenchpilgrim wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been crashing for me and friends for about a week now, mostly on youtube

That's on YouTube. It doesn't work well on anything now, and hasn't for a long, long while.

Works well on chrome and android. I've never had issues

Re: End of Japanese community

#568

Post by Andrex »

kstenerud wrote: post #369

I know that everyone has already given their opinions about what kinds of people are involved and their motivations, but this is really about two fallible humans, one listing grievances and another asking to open a communication channel. That's it. Anything else you read into this is going to be fraught with your own coloring based on a hundred words written in text (a notoriously difficult medium to establish emotio…

> the right thing to do is talk voice/video and hash out what the problems are

This doesn't scale and excludes people who avoid voice/video with near-strangers for personal or psychological reasons.

Re: End of Japanese community

#569

Post by rendaw »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #514
ares623 wrote: post #3

This is rich > We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. The post literally starts with a list of grievances. Maybe ask the AI for an executive summary and the key points.

Yes, and the poster wants to understand them. How would you have responded?

In the thread.

Re: End of Japanese community

#570

Post by superkuh »

I'm sure they'll be as open and communicative with the community as they were when their baked-in CA TLS certs for the add-ons expired and everyone not using $latest's add-ons got disabled. Which is to say they'll explicitly shut down the comment threads where people are discussing it over and over and then set up a non-commentable blog post where they ignore everything. And leave the problem in place to repeat in the future.
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