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Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

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Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#561

Post by vjerancrnjak »

jwr wrote: post #417
withinboredom wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar setup to me (including rethinkdb). Why choose FoundationDB? RethinkDb is still maintained and features added occasionally (I'm on the rethinkdb slack and maintain an async php driver). It just is one guy though, working on it part time.

RethinkDB is somewhat maintained, and while it is a very good database and works quite well, it is not future-proof. But the bigger reason is that I need better performance, and by now (after 10 years) I know my data access patterns well, so I can make really good use of FoundationDB. The reason for FoundationDB specifically is mostly correctness, it is pretty much the only distributed database out there that gives y…

How will you deal with lack of 3 AZ or FI to DE latency?

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#562

Post by bcantrill »

dematz wrote: post #508
torginus wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, I hope to god we are moving past the age of 'everything's fast if you have enough machines' and 'money is not real' era of software development. I remember the point in my career when I moved from a cranky old .NET company, where we handled millions of users from a single cabinent's worth of beefy servers, to a cloud based shop where we used every cloud buzzword tech under the sun (but mainly everything was cont…

Tangential point but why is it that so often these leaving the cloud posts use the word "beefy" to describe the servers? It's always you don't need cloud because beefy servers handle pretty much any bla bla bla https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... If anyone from oxide computer or similar is reading, maybe you should rebrand to BEEFY server inc...

Noted!

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#563

Post by artdigital »

Been thinking about fully self hosting my small stuff for a bit but a mini managed k8s ($10) is just so convenient. I build a new docker image for some thing, add a manifest file to my k8s repo and apply it - my “cluster” spins up a new pod, I can easily hook it up to tailscale or Cloudflare warp to make it accessible, and it’s available

Been using this approach for the past years and if something gets bigger, I move the container to fly or a different k8s cluster in a couple hours max

On my bigger k8s I can then easily add more nodes or scale up pods depending on need, and scale them back down when idle.

Still the main issue with any setup I see is the database. No matter what I use I’d either have a managed Postgres somewhere, or something like litestream, and if that’s not in the same data center it’s gonna add latency sadly

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#564

Post by nine_k »

I see the allure of dedicated servers. All is great when everything works. What I miss in this picture is failure scenarios.

How many dedicated servers do you need to run to afford losing one of them to a hardware failure? What is the cost and lead time for a replacement? How much overprovisioning do you need to do, and how well ahead, in anticipation of seasonal spikes, or a wave of signups from a marketing campaign?

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#565

Post by PeterZaitsev »

There is no one size fits all. On the small scale "managed" cloud which takes care of as many things as possible is effective. As you scale though it will cost proportional to environment size, except some discount. With solutions like Hetzner you get a lot more of hardware for the price but have to invest more labor into managing it, with automation however this labor does not grow nearly as much as your environment size.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#566

Post by artdigital »

mlnj wrote: post #547
kakoni wrote: post #544

Any k8s self-hosters here? How is that going?

Have been running a couple of machines on Hetzner cloud with https://github.com/vitobotta/hetzner-ks for about 2 years now. Have been very happy with the setup. Also hosts a StackGres cluster that's backs up to GCS. Plenty of compute foe the price.

Your link 404s

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#567

Post by artdigital »

eric_khun wrote: post #38

AWS won't raise the limits on our new account (we're stuck at 1GB RAM in Lightsail after 2 months, even though we need to launch this month). Looking at Hetzner or Vultr as alternatives. A few folks mentioned me Infomaniak has great service and uptime, but I haven't heard much about them otherwise. Anyone used Infomaniak in production? How do they compare to Hetzner/Vultr?

I have all my small stuff on a Vultr managed k8s with the cheapest nodes.

Big fan of Vultr, I like them a lot, but got bare metal stuff Hetzner is going to be cheaper

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#568

Post by jamwil »

BiraIgnacio wrote: post #158
lisperforlife wrote: post #11

I think you can get much farther with dedicated servers. I run a couple of nodes on Hetzner. The performance you get from a dedicated machine even if it is a 3 year old machine that you can get on server auction is absolutely bonkers and cannot be compared to VMs. The thing is that most of the server hardware is focused towards high core count, low clock speed processors that optimize for I/O rather than compute. It…

In Canada https://www.hostpapa.ca/ https://www.cacloud.com/ https://www.keepsec.ca/ https://www.canspace.ca/

Thanks for this.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#569

Post by jiggawatts »

hibikir wrote: post #352
radu_floricica wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is old is new again. Over the years I tried occasionally to look into cloud, but it never made sense. A lot of complexity and significantly higher cost, for very low performance and a promise of "scalability". You virtually never need scalability so fast that you don't have time to add another server - and at baremetal costs, you're usually about a year ahead of the curve anyways.

A nimble enough company doesn't need it, but I've had 6 months of lead time to request one extra server in an in-house data center due to sheer organizational failure. The big selling point of the cloud really was that one didn't have to deal with the division lording over the data center, or have any and all access to even log in by their priesthood who knew less unix than the programmers. I've been in multiple clou…

Running away from internal IT works until they inevitably catch up to the escapees. At $dayjob the time required to spin up a single cloud VM is now measured in years. I’ve seen projects take so long that the cloud vendor started sending deprecation notices half way through for their tech stacks but they forged ahead anyway because it’s “too hard to steer that ship”.

The current “runners” are heading towards SaaS platforms like Salesforce, which is like the cloud but with ten times worse lock in.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#570

Post by icedchai »

wredcoll wrote: post #405
Arch-TK wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is more likely to fail? The hardware managed by Hetzner or your product? I'm not saying that you won't experience hardware failures, I am just saying that you also need to remember that if you want your product to keep working over the weekend then you must have someone ready to fix it over the weekend.

I mean, yes, but also I get "3 nines" uptime by running a website on a box connected to my isp in my house. (it would easily be 4 or 5 nines if I also had a stable power grid...) There's a lot, a lot of websites where downtime just... doesn't matter. Yes it adds up eventually but if you go to twitter and its down again you just come back later.

"3 nines" is around 8 hours of downtime a year. If you can get that without a UPS or generator, you already have a stable power grid.
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