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US cities pay too much for buses

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Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A single bus creates as much congestion as around 15 cars. It's a fairly well-known result in urban planning. I've never heard anything of the sort and I don't believe it at face value - that's roughly the length of a football field. Perhaps this is true in a specific area with terrible bus infrastructure but where I live, and the majority of places where I've been, bus stops are off the main road so they never blo…

> I've never heard anything of the sort and I don't believe it at face value Perhaps you should stop listening to propaganda from the ubranists and start digging past the images of happy smiling cyclists riding the bike lanes in perfect weather with the sun shining on them? > that's roughly the length of a football field. Yep. That's how bad buses are. Want another fun fact? One bus does the same amount of road damag…

> Perhaps you should stop listening to propaganda from the ubranists

I know this site is US-centric but excuse me if I don't take anti-public-transport propaganda at face value. I've lived in Europe all of my life and I've been to major US cities on the west coast so I've seen great public transport as well as the car-centric culture with my own eyes.

> Yep. That's how bad buses are.

No, that claim is ridiculous and obviously incorrect - It's laughable, really. Care to [try to] substantiate it?

> One bus does the same amount of road damage as 1000-5000 cars.

Sure, buses do cause more road damage than personal vehicles, but that's hardly a significant factor. Care to list all of the externalities for personal cars? Does parking build and maintain itself? How about all of the opportunity cost for space occupied by parked cars? Injuries caused by impaired drivers?

> A well-designed city like Houston will have enough road space so that buses are do not affect the traffic disproportionately. But then it means that such a city does not _need_ buses.

I have no idea what you meant by this. That doesn't logically follow.

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it costs the public sector 3x as much to do things as the private sector people are going to turn against the public sector. Have crazy people screaming on the street corner in the city and people will retreat to the suburbs and order from Amazon instead of going shopping, order a private taxi for their burrito instead of going to a restaurant. If the public sector were efficient, responsive and pleasant people…

Private sector knows how to keep costs down, but that's because the incentive is to enrich the people at the top. This eventually comes at the cost of quality. Public sector sometimes acts like they have infinite money. They'll just print more and drive up inflation while paying lip service to voters and pretending to care during election season. There's also the massive corruption in the public sector. All the work…

The biggest problem with the private sector is that the tradeoff is always resiliency. Be it a product that isn't resilient to damage from everyday use, a supply chain that isn't resilient against erratic governments or pandemics, or the capacity and capability to rapidly upscale production.

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The second is that nobody is making a generic of the more bioavailable version even though the patent is expired. I've been taking this drug since 1995 and the brand-name version has been in production (in its current format) since 1938. I don't think there have been any substantial improvements in the formulation in decades (as evidenced by my dosage, at least.) It certainly isn't expensive due to patents. What's h…

Here's the part where it seems like we're still missing some information. There is an unpatented formulation of the drug which is better enough that patients are willing to pay a large premium for it, but there is only one company making it. It can't be that the other companies don't like money, so what's the actual reason?

I think you misunderstand how US drug purchases work. There is very little competitive market whatsoever anywhere in the prescription med system; there are simply "brands" and "patented meds" and "generics" plus various underserved niches where pharma companies can extract high prices from desperate patients (see e.g., Martin Shkreli and Daraprim.)

With respect to generics, there's little incentive to make a better formulation. If patients have insurance, they'll get whatever "bioequivalent" generic is available from the pharmacy if it matches the insurance provider's formulary price requirements. That manufacturer can change any time, since by law they're all deemed equivalent. It's like buying generic store-brand ibuprofen: you have no idea which factory is actually making the stuff, and it can change from package to package.

There's also very little benefit to having a "brand name" generic that has better bioavailability since you really can't charge more for it: insurance companies and pharmacies will just switch to another generic brand with lower costs. Trying to argue better bioavailability could also involve admitting that your existing bioequivalence studies are bunk, which would require an expensive new certification process. Plus, even in a functioning and truly competitive market, trying to experiment with different formulations to figure out which "gets better results" is a dangerous game for individuals; it's not like buying different Kleenex and deciding which holds together better. You have to do a lot of risky trial and error and get frequent blood tests.

So basically we have a system that ensures a completely non-functioning non-competitive market, and then we throw in an exclusive term where new medication can be sold at any price and we expect market forces to somehow constrain manufacturers. But the market forces are very weak and limited here. When we clearly end up paying dozens of times more than other countries (even for unpatented medicine) people raise the R&D issue to justify the costs. But that's sort of like saying "hey, the Mafia spends a lot on churches, so their extractive business model is fine." If you really want churches (or R&D) we should find a more rational way to come up with those funds.

PS this paper is a good (old) study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8026413/

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite true. If you own the providers, getting people to pay deductibles and copays (i.e. getting treated) will yield way more money than just having them pay premiums.

But undercutting the other insurers/providers should earn you more, if it were competitive, which I guess it's just not

Correct, which is another reason why they are buying the healthcare providers. It allows the insurers (“pay-viders”) to strong arm independent doctors and smaller insurers out of the market.

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#565
post #219

Ever since I first looked at the Oshkosh NGDV for the USPS I couldn't help but wonder WHY there was a need for a custom vehicle?* European parcel delivery firms and postal systems (Deutsche Post DHL, La Poste, Royal Mail, PostNL and all the non-legacy competitors) generally do not commission purpose-built vehicles, they buy off the shelf small vans and light commercial vehicles. * of course I do know why, "because jo…

USPS has drastically different approach to mail deliver and pickup than most countries. Including as mentioned street-level mailboxes for both pickup and delivery, and general idea that really rural mail gets delivered direct still. In comparison, polish postal system although it's pretty much standard european approach: - postal trucks deliver mail between post offices - in cities and more built-up rural areas, on-f…

> instead of constantly starting and stopping to access road-side mailboxes

Q: What's the (average) distance between deliveries to road-side mailboxes?

I'm thinking of the average driving time between them, compared with the time to get out of a vehicle, put mail in a mailbox, and get back in the a vehicle...

I know "mounted delivery routes" sound and feel more efficient, but just how much more efficient are they actually?

We should note that USPS letter volumes are falling (just like everywhere else in the world) and somehow parcel/packet delivery services do not need to have "mounted routes", the delivery crew appear to be able to just get out of their vehicles(?)

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never heard anything of the sort and I don't believe it at face value Perhaps you should stop listening to propaganda from the ubranists and start digging past the images of happy smiling cyclists riding the bike lanes in perfect weather with the sun shining on them? > that's roughly the length of a football field. Yep. That's how bad buses are. Want another fun fact? One bus does the same amount of road damag…

> Perhaps you should stop listening to propaganda from the ubranists I know this site is US-centric but excuse me if I don't take anti-public-transport propaganda at face value. I've lived in Europe all of my life and I've been to major US cities on the west coast so I've seen great public transport as well as the car-centric culture with my own eyes. > Yep. That's how bad buses are. No, that claim is ridiculous and…

> I've lived in Europe all of my life and I've been to major US cities on the west coast so I've seen great public transport as well as the car-centric culture with my own eyes.

So you're telling me that you've never seen a well-run people-oriented city like Houston?

And I grew up in Europe. I got my driving license around the age of 25, and my first car at 29.

> No, that claim is ridiculous and obviously incorrect - It's laughable, really. Care to [try to] substantiate it?

See?

> Care to list all of the externalities for personal cars? Does parking build and maintain itself? How about all of the opportunity cost for space occupied by parked cars? Injuries caused by impaired drivers?

Care to list all the externalities of buses? Do bus drivers spring out of sea foam and dissolve after the shift? How about all of the opportunity cost for people who can't make commutes that are forbidden by the bus network? The entire human lifetimes wasted every day while waiting for buses?

> Injuries caused by impaired drivers?

Self-driving solved it?

> I have no idea what you meant by this. That doesn't logically follow.

If buses don't affect your traffic flow, then you have enough road space so that residents can just use cars.

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#568
post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What commodity isn't ruled by intergovernmental agreements, a cartel, a monopsony or something else? Please name just one.

Gold

Gold isn't really a commodity. It's mostly used and traded as an asset.

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name a single one then. It's funny to see that this was my most downvoted comment ever on HN. Looks like blasphemy against the “free market” religion isn't tolerated here.

All the other kinds of insurance

Ah yes, like the health insurance market, so competitive it took a CEO murder to fix abusive practices from the dominant actor.

How compelling of an example, really.

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#570
post #242
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even Amazon has custom EVs built for them. Eh, sort of. Amazon partnered with Rivian to help design the EDV and had an initial exclusivity agreement as long as they ordered a certain number of them, but this agreement has since been terminated so anyone can buy them now. The USPS actually tested one in early 2024.

Its not clear what your point is? Both USPS and Amazon got heavily customized vehicles made for them. In the US the USPS is a government agency so any kind of government contracts get heavily securitized by the public but nobody cares what trucks Fedex and Amazon buy just like in countries where the mail service is privatized.

IMO a LLV or NGDV is a custom-designed vehicle for USPS, the EDV is a delivery-optimized electric step van that happens to have been designed with the input of one specific delivery vendor.
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