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Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

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Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#561

Post by sagarm »

dcposch wrote: post #513
mbesto wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instant on-chain transfers avoiding trapped liquidity. If you're transferring money from financial institution A to institution B, and the transfer takes a day, you're either slowed a day in taking the next step or you have to somehow cover that float. These are slow by design - abuse/fraud. How does blockchain solve that issue? > * Fees that are lower than cards. Card payments are instant, which is often valuable…

> Once again - this is a feature not a bug Are you really "once again"ing Patrick Collison on the issue of how payments work ?

I don't know who pc is, and he mentioned speed as a benefit without addressing the fraud / abuse implications. It's pretty reasonable to flag the gap.

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#562

Post by graeme »

elteto wrote: post #553
graeme wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can absolutely do that with stablecoins. Why couldn't you?

How would the “out of thin air” value creation work in a blockchain ledger? Pardon my very naive understanding of both subjects.

There are defi loans for example. You take an asset like BTC and loan stablecoins against it.

The underlying asset can be rehypothecated, Celsius did this before going bust iirc.

Tether is also the underlying backer of crypto market cap, and has never done an audit of their assets. They've made loans to various crypto market participants.

In theory there are auto liquidation rules etc. In practice humans have not yet managed to create a financial system they can't make asset bubbles with

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#563

Post by vvpan »

There have been a few attempts to start private L1, but based on what EY's Paul Brody says they fail due to the complexity of validator politics and inability to achieve a reasonable level of trustlessness. The more respectable public chains do not have this problem. It is also the reason why we have seen more companies launch their own L2's - L1's are just a messy business.

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#564

Post by kiitos »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #229
jrm4 wrote: post #125

Ah the layers. Okay, so one: Obviously pointless from a tech POV. There is nothing that a Stripe controlled blockchain could offer that a database could not. But then, why? Sadly, as someone who does like the ideals of true cryptocurrency, yet another way to make sure "real" crypto doesn't happen, much like what is happening to BTC. Here's hoping (yeah, it's a long shot) people see through all of this and maybe, MAYB…

> Stripe controlled blockchain could offer that a database could not. A database cannot resist tampering by somebody with admin access to the database. It may be the only thing that blockchains have going for them, but it's a big one.

you get enough voting power and you can fork any blockchain to whatever state you want, no different than an admin doing an upsert

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#566

Post by homakov »

Is it a blockchain though? Or anything that remotely resembles block creation in some concentrated datacenters with Tempo's "design partners" gets to be called that.

Something claiming over 20-30 tps onchain is usually a big blocker. Big blocker design is well recognized as insecure: no end user is able to run a full node locally, only datacenters are able to keep up with 100k tps load. Which diminishes entire purpose of creating a blockchain. Could have been a database with 100k tps or 3-of-4 validator multisig like Hyperledger, wouldn't matter.

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#567

Post by baby »

procaryote wrote: post #234
baby wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your protocol has to use a consensus mechanism if you want to reliably make progress, and be able to recover if you make mistakes, this is exactly what a blockchain solves

That you _can_ solve it with a blockchain doesn't mean that you can _only_ solve it with a blockchain. M valid signatures of N authorities is a consensus mechanism that just needs public keys. You don't need a blockchain if you're prepared to trust a set of authorities like stripe and their trusted partners.

It's not a consensus mechanism in the rigorous sense, it's more similar to a reliable broadcast protocol (less powerful)

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#568

Post by verdverm »

pc wrote: post #46

There are lots of crypto skeptics on HN (and we ourselves were disappointed with crypto's payments utility for much of the past decade), so it might be interesting to share what changed our mind over the past couple of years: we started to notice a lot of real-world businesses finding utility in stablecoins. For example, Bridge (a stablecoin orchestration platform that Stripe acquired) is used by SpaceX for managing…

Crypto plus doing business with Musk? Not sure you'll win many hearts and minds

You could achieve the same things with a proof-of-authority ledger instead of a "stable" coin

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#569

Post by baby »

siddthesquid wrote: post #211
baby wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll attempt an answer: Today, if you want to transact between businesses or retail (folks like you and I), you need to find a route between the two entities' banks. This route might take several hops, passing through some central banks, and some of these hops might be instant or might take days to actually settle. On top of that, you need to pay the service that helped you find a route (SWIFT) and potentially the no…

I think the technology of blockchain is irrelevant. If something can be accomplished on the blockchain, which requires N nodes, a business can probably replicate that same objective with less than N nodes because they don't have to pay the cost of verifying that nodes are acting honestly. This business is incentivized to be honest because otherwise they lose their business. Someone has to pay those costs for the N no…

You are missing the "trust" element of a blockchain. A blockchain essentially allows you to run a distributed database where the different actors don't trust one another. Tradfi is built on trust of entities (can I trust this bank? Can I trust this central bank? Etc.)

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#570

Post by eutropia »

spir wrote: post #542
dperfect wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds great, but every time I see this argument, I end up going down the rabbit hole of actually studying how stablecoins operate. And every time, I come to the same conclusion: they always rely on trust in an off-chain oracle or custodian. At that point, a shared ledger implemented with traditional databases / protocols would be faster, easier, and more transparent. Bitcoin (and possibly a few others) is one of…

You are missing what many are missing, which is that a centralized stablecoin like USDC on a public blockchain is already much more useful and powerful than a dollar in a bank account, and that will only 100x from here. The reasons why are left as an exercise to the reader :)

No, they aren't.

But I suspect that if you had to construct an actual argument instead gesturing smugly at innuendo that your point would fall apart.

Please explain your "100x" stablecoin argument and if you feel like it, your asset ratio of items denominated in USD vs USDC.

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