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GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

glp1digest.com

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Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen so many reports of people losing weight one way or another, and saying they kept it off, and I think only once has it been more than a year. Usually under 6 months. Personally I lost a ton of weight doing full-on keto (I specify, because some people just kinda cut out carbs) and then kept it off for over 2 years. But I put the weight back on after that, albeit slowly (over the course of maybe 7 years). I've…

I don’t see myself gaining 50 lb back. I would have to eat a TON which I don’t

A small energy surplus over time is enough

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#562
post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GLP-1 - Mild nausea, always temporary and in the beginning, easy to avoid by tapering dose. Extremely effective. SSRI - about 10% chance of major sexual disfunction, often permanent, significant likelihood of sleep disturbance, majority get blunted emotions. Debatably effective. Not really comparable.

As someone who's currently experiencing significant and crippling gastroparesis due to GLP-1's, being reductive about the side effects is not particularly helpful.

Lower your dose a little? Gastroparesis is a choice on these and only at high doses for long periods, you get signs weeks in advance and you choose to stay on a high dose. Myself never experienced it even when I had extremely strong effects (near 500 cals a day for a few weeks), but I did have some slowness, I lowered my dose and was fine.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 10 or so people I know who are on it, nearly all actually seem to enjoy it - reduced addictive tendencies/bad habits, appetite control, and reduced allergies seem to pretty well outweigh the minor side effects.

I was a heavy alcoholic, and the ability to quite drinking was... amazing. Now that I'm off, I just remind myself I never want to get back at that dark place, but I'm so very glad it made quitting just... happen. It's wild how easy it was. A little mental control in terms of "no, don't go to the liquor store" but it was habit more than physical addition at that point. This was with Rybelsus. Sober 4.5 years now. It w…

Crazy to hear all these stories. My wife’s friend was a pack a day smoker for a decade that had transitioned into a heavy vape smoker, normal weight but couldn’t get off vaping despite trying. She tried Tirz to see if it would help and after only about 3 months she quit entirely, now completely smoke free for two months.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#564
post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having ADHD myself, and a bunch of friends who also have it, I have noticed that the people with this condition rarely have a healthy relationship with food. There is either a tendency to overeat indulgent foods, or a tendency to not think about food that much. I have also heard about people with ADHD being on GLP1 agonists that it does a lot for their reward seeking behavior and impulse control. This makes me wonder…

As I wrote to another person here: Yes. Not as much as with ADHD medication, but there is an obvious subset of addictive personalities that find relief from addictive behaviors (beyond eating addiction) with semaglutide. But to add to this, I feel like there are different kinds of addictive behaviors at play that are more susceptible to one medication or the other and are based on different systems. For instance, the…

> I don't think I can say that there is much of a pattern between ADHD and overeating, just based on how easily I can predict if someone is overeating or not if I know they have ADHD. That is, it would be a coin toss.

Person you responded to suggested P( overeating | undereating ) as opposed to your P( overeating ). I expect the effects of those two conditions would tend to cancel each other out in observations.

> As seen in studies where people that start lisdexamfetamine (ADHD medication common in the EU) have a huge reduction in actual amphetamine abuse.

Perhaps I misunderstand you but lisdexamfetamine _is_ an amphetamine. That reads like saying that people prescribed an opiate exhibit reduced opiate abuse. It seems either tautological (not abuse because permitted) or obvious (cooperative supervised use reduces bad things happening) or perhaps related to drug safety (A simply being safer to use than B).

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#565
post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eminent domain implies fair compensation. The point is that you don't get to withhold the drug from people to maximize profits.

The people can wait seven years for the patent to expire.

Patents are a form of artificial monopoly that only exists because the people (acting through their government as a representative of their will) decided to have them, and did so because they presumably are a net social benefit. Consequently, governments are not obligated to treat them as sacrosanct, and most certainly not in a case where they are not beneficial to public interests.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 10 or so people I know who are on it, nearly all actually seem to enjoy it - reduced addictive tendencies/bad habits, appetite control, and reduced allergies seem to pretty well outweigh the minor side effects.

I'm on semaglutide for weight loss purposes, while having no other health issues relevant here. I don't think it's made any difference to any addictive tendencies or my bad habits (and with ADHD, those certainly exist). It certainly helps with the appetite of course. This is definitely anecdotal evidence, but it's wise to hold on longer for more data to come in before advocating for it on those grounds alone.

Too many miraculous stories so far I’ve heard, numerous people close to me quitting lifelong addictions cold turkey within months of starting.

I’ve never had an addictive personality but I also found I gave up a couple habits while on it.

I wonder if ADHD specifically isn’t as prone to positive effects there.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#567
post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Fair compensation means that the company doesn't end up with a loss, and gets rewarded, but it doesn't mean "give them as much money as they could otherwise extract by exploiting the monopoly that the patent gives them on the market".

Doesn't seem fair to me.

And withholding access to drugs that would extend everyone's lifespan by several years to maximize profits doesn't seem fair to me either. In fact, it's outright sociopathic.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the drug + the injector together are the patentable thing. When the first patent nears expiration, they work on an iteration of the injector or a time release change for the drug, then they get another few decades of product monopoly. They have also made a business of either stifling or “catch and kill”ing of the generics for their products. It’s cheaper to pay off a generic manufacturer to not compete with the…

This is not correct. New patents cover the new combination, but don't prevent practice of the old combination

Scroll down to the area referencing footnote 9 in this article

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11457043/

That articulates it better than I will

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You’re thinking too highly about the incentives of the US healthcare system. Since insurance is tied to your employer (and therefore changing every few years) Most people don’t change jobs or insurance companies every few years. When they do, it’s often within similar regions and industries so the chances of ending up right back under the same insurance company are significant. Regardless, the issue is more complic…

A night in the hospital is easily $12k almost anywhere in the U.S. People with chronic health conditions spend an inordinate amount of time at the doctor and in hospitals. That could save a significant amount of money if that’s reduced or eliminated. Not to mention the time savings. I could be wrong, but all things being equal doesn’t it make sense to spend $12k/year on medication than $12/year on doctor and speciali…

A one off anecdote here - I ended up in hospital for a TIA. I'm in Australia, and this is a public hospital. Free in other words. I have never seen so many seriously obese people in my life. They were all occupying hospital beds. I swear at least half the beds were use occupied by them. Meanwhile, we have ambulance lining the ramps of hospitals, with patients in them, waiting for bed to become free.

To put the this in perspective, where I live spends about $10,000/yr/person on health. That's all kinds of health. I'm not sure $5,000/yr (which is about the price here) of GLP-1 would be a generate proportionate decline, but I would not write it off. The $10K is paid by everybody, the $5k would only be for the obese.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#570
post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I wrote to another person here: Yes. Not as much as with ADHD medication, but there is an obvious subset of addictive personalities that find relief from addictive behaviors (beyond eating addiction) with semaglutide. But to add to this, I feel like there are different kinds of addictive behaviors at play that are more susceptible to one medication or the other and are based on different systems. For instance, the…

> I don't think I can say that there is much of a pattern between ADHD and overeating, just based on how easily I can predict if someone is overeating or not if I know they have ADHD. That is, it would be a coin toss. Person you responded to suggested P( overeating | undereating ) as opposed to your P( overeating ). I expect the effects of those two conditions would tend to cancel each other out in observations. > As…

Regarding under- and over-eating: it seems you think I am a simple mathematical average that doesn't factor that in. I stand by my observation, as and observation, not fact.

Lisdexamfetamine is not amphetamine—not chemically, not in terms of its half-life, not in subjective experience, and not in any study that tracks behavioral or long-term effects. At best, it's a prodrug of an enantiomer of amphetamine. You are also mistaken about the study. Reading even the abstract would clear that up for you.

Let me clean up the unnecessary, convoluted language before I answer: Q: Does it stop being called "abuse" once a doctor prescribes it? A: No. The prescription stopped hospitalizations due to amphetamine overdose.

Q: Is it simply safer to use drugs with a doctor's help? A: That was not answerable based on the study's design. It is also not a useful question to ask in this context, since it's comparing apples and oranges. Some of the worst cases of drug abuse are created and maintained by doctors. However, taking drugs collaboratively with a doctor is probably safer on average than getting them from random webpages.

Q: Is this specific amphetamine safer than others? A: Yes, as is the case with any substance we ingest. You can quibble over the details, but beer is safer than hard liquor. Likewise, different medications in the same category or receptor affinity group have different LD_{50} doses (the ratio of the clinically effective threshold to the threshold where 50% of subjects would die).

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