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Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

port.ac.uk

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Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#561

Post by teaearlgraycold »

tiltowait wrote: post #559
teaearlgraycold wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No randomness when taking everything into account. I’m not an expert but I still hold out hope that if you know more about the universe than humanity does everything will be known to be deterministic. Also implies that all singularities of the same mass are identical. I think this should be less bold of a statement. Let’s speculate that the more mass in the singularity would correspond to higher iterations in somethi…

While I doubt you’re unique in this, I think this is the first time I’ve seen someone say they hope there’s no such thing as free will. Can you explain why you hope everything is deterministic?

Might just be a reflection of my enjoyment of life. I’ve been very lucky on most aspects. Perhaps if things were worse I’d wish for the knowledge that it could have gone differently.

But also it would be super trippy and interesting. Knowing just the mass of the universe you’d be able to peer into any time, past or present, and see exactly what happened. But then what happens around areas where people look into the local time? This happens in the show Devs. So not at all a new idea in scifi.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#562

Post by thomasweiser »

D-Coder wrote: post #552
PaulHoule wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see this idea as very new. There are many models of black holes, such as the Schwarzchild solution, that have an area of "asymptotically flat spacetime" which is, from the viewpoint of our universe, part of the black hole. That something happens around the singularity that creates this new universe doesn't sound that crazy. If our universe is a child of another universe and that is a child of another universe…

> we're lucky to be in one we can live in Nitpick: We couldn't be anywhere else, except nonexistent.

The anthropic principle

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#563

Post by ajuc »

EMM_386 wrote: post #381

These type of 'theories' I dislike only because they don't get to the root of the problem. It is the same for 'multiverse' where that is used to explain literally anything 'it's like that in this universe but not the others'. Sure, we can get creative and explain the Anthropic Principle by mentioning the multiverse. But none of this answers how something comes from nothing. Not the vacuum of space and its 'quantum fo…

> But none of this answers how something comes from nothing

Why do you assume there was nothing?

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#564

Post by layer8 »

grumple wrote: post #558
layer8 wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are referring to the many-worlds interpretation, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. There is no implication in many-worlds that every conceivable world exists as a branch of the actual wave function. See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44253344 .

The math does imply infinite universes. There are many physicists who believe that all these worlds do exist. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation And a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzKWfw68M5U&list=PLsPUh22kYm...

Infinite universes doesn’t imply every possible universe. I don’t disagree about them existing.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#565

Post by gms7777 »

n2d4 wrote: post #71
carbocation wrote: post #24

I think it's neat that this summary is written by an author of the scientific manuscript. Oversimplification is a risk, but this approach eliminates the possibility that the writer did not understand the underlying science.

Yea, and it was a great read too. I wish more researchers would publish blog posts alongside their technical whitepapers, although I acknowledge that not everyone involved in science has or wishes to acquire the skills needed to write blog-form content. (I'd also be worried about a world where researchers are evaluated based on the virality of their blog posts, vs. how impactful their work was.)

A few years ago, at least in my field, there was definitely a trend of people at least doing twitter threads explaining the key findings of their papers. It's obviously less in-depth than a blog post would be, but it was still usually a far more accessible version of the key ideas. Unfortunately, this community has basically dissolved in the last few years due to the changes in twitter and to my knowledge hasn't really converged on a new home.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#566

Post by layer8 »

notfed wrote: post #554
layer8 wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are referring to the many-worlds interpretation, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. There is no implication in many-worlds that every conceivable world exists as a branch of the actual wave function. See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44253344 .

I fail to see how this doesn't lead to "every possible world". Maybe some edge cases are ruled out, but it seems to imply every possible world as far as what that means to the imagination.

It is constrained by whatever you take as the initial conditions. The quantum state of the universe is a specific and precise thing, as well as how it evolves over time. It can be taken as a vector in Hilbert space that evolves according to the Schrödinger equation. There is no implication that the resulting path will have it visit every point in Hilbert space, or that the slices of the wave function that represent individual “worlds” somehow cover all worlds present in the unvisited points.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#567

Post by layer8 »

asveikau wrote: post #527
layer8 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carlo Rovelli's book is idiosyncratic, it doesn't reflect scientific consensus on the matter.

Care to give a specific example?

It’s more a philosophical book than a physics book. I’ve only skimmed it, but it presents philosophical views that don’t reflect a scientific consensus.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#568

Post by NL807 »

jandrese wrote: post #545
NL807 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sabine Hossenfelder has a few comments on this topic in her YT channel.

Sabine is an asshole. Doesn't mean she is wrong, and I appreciate when she reads some paper that has made a bunch of headlines to figure out if they're full of crap or not (spoiler alert: the answer is usually yes), but while she can identify the problem she's not part of the solution. Her divorce from academia means she has little power to affect change for the better given how the incentives are currently aligned.…

So she is an arsehole for exposing bullshit? I don't see the problem. I think people take issue with her because of her confrontational persona.

>while she can identify the problem she's not part of the solution

Does she have to be, in principle?

> Her divorce from academia means she has little power to affect change for the better given how the incentives are currently aligned.

Wouldn't be so sure about that. She is getting more public exposure than most academic would in their lifetime. More importantly, exposure to audience _outside_ of academia. Voters. Her effort in creating public awareness has certainly stirred the nest in some academic circles.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#569

Post by JKCalhoun »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #528
godelski wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> requires a parent universe Not exactly . A universe can expand, slow down, then collapse. In this case, bouncing back out. Does that repeat forever? Does it lose energy in the bounce? If so, to where and how? > The black hole in the parent universe must be much much bigger than anything we see in ours Yes and no. You're not thinking about contraction. With relativity we can fit a 100ft ladder inside a 10ft barn. Mo…

Where does the information of the previous universe before the bounce go? Is it destroyed?

It's been suggested it is gone and that perhaps even new laws of physics are created with each iteration (but I don't know why that would be).

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#570

Post by mr_toad »

kosh2 wrote: post #515

I have two problems / questions with this: 1. This theory requires a parent universe that can't have been formed inside a black hole. This means there must a be second "universe creation" mechanism that we can / may never know about from our child universe. For me, this doesn't really answer the true question: "How did our universe begin?" Yeah, it may the "unknown field with strange properties" but instead we get an…

The outer universe could have always existed, but unlike ours it eventually collapsed. By contrast ours did the reverse, and it looks like it will expand forever. There is a neat symmetry. I guess you could make the case that it’s really just one universe, and the collapse and expansion mirror each other.
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