An incredible strategy for getting the article to break containment. I won't share it unless you pay me $7100, which is how much it costs me to live in America with dependents
How to live on $432 a month in America
561–570 of 764 posts
Re: How to live on $432 a month in America
#562I've commented (probably too much) to argue with the harshest critics of this piece, but I am surprised to not have seen much this criticism which is my main one: Supposing I've made peace with the main gist of this: Cut living expenses to a point where you can work ¼ or so of the time most of us spend working by living somewhere cheap and not being so materialistic. The missing piece here is social connections. Fami…
As an introvert, I believe I could live in a remote location without problem. I often wish I could switch off my hearing to just enjoy silence, and dream of getting a chance to spend time in an isolation chamber. That said, I don’t know if I’d want to live in a depressing small town, unless it had a good diner.
Rural NY isn't just for introverts. Most people are social and are somewhat active. Like most areas, an outsider will probably feel like an outsider, but if one allows themselves to be curious about the things people are into doing, I think it would be fine for typically social people.
One who sneers at rural people and habits will probably not get along. And if you take too much offense at rural people sneering about urban things, likewise.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of racism in upstate NY. I do know rural NY black people, and they do fine, but I'm not sure they appreciate the way insults are thrown about "present company excluded". It's those attitudes that kept me from wanting to stay.
Re: How to live on $432 a month in America
#563Earlier quoted context omitted.
"You could be a simple farm laborer and have a wife and kids and a place in society." You could not afford a good life as a farm laborer.
I don't think the OP was suggesting it would be a good life if by "good" you mean a life of relative comfort. I think his claim was much more modest. The point is that at that time a farm laborer was valued by the local community.
Farm laborers were probably at the bottom of the social ladder for working rural people. They were usually fully dependent on the owner of the farm that they worked on. Think of the cowboys in the bunkhouse in "Yellowstone" except way worse.
Re: How to live on $432 a month in America
#564Earlier quoted context omitted.
The network effects/moats of places! There needs to be a Kickstarter for coordinating groups of people to move to the same place all at the same time.
The Free State Project[1] had 20k libertarians pledge to move to New Hampshire, talking 15 years to reach the total number. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_State_Project
This has turned out to be a really interesting failure. To point out just one aspect, back in the 1970s there were hints that New Hampshire was leaning toward legalization of cannabis. Libertarian party meetups often focused on legalization of cannabis. This trend seemed to be solid and strongly linked to Libertarian influence in the state.
Then the Free State Project happened and the intense liberty seeking of the Libertarian party kept everyone occupied with arguments about bears and taxation. Meanwhile the rest of New England legalized cannabis while New Hampshire remained in a strange state of suspension. The influence of Libertarians has been so chaotic and unpredictable that what was considered the most likely result of Libertarian influence now seems completely out of reach.
This powerfully demonstrates how seemingly minor or irrelevant factors like political networks, tone, and tempo can end up being as important as core political issues and their direct consequences. Metaphors like piloting the ship of state through stormy waters take on additional meaning in this context.
Re: How to live on $432 a month in America
#565Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those are both vague and completely different ways to handle heating. Also, conveniently, neither appear to have an associated cost so we don't have to worry about whether the financial math works out.
It's because when you live rural like this, wood stoves are common, and wood is free. I live in the northwest, so I can't speak to upstate NY, but downed trees on state and federal land near roads is free to take. Every day there's people posting rounds of wood for free to take. It's hard work, but it's good exercise and rewarding. There's some upfront investment: $200 chainsaw, an old maul, and an old pickup truck,…
Wood is not free, and you have to consider the time and gas and tools to cut it, also this guy doesn't even have a car not to mention a truck to haul it, and he is living on a lot, not a wooded acreage. 90% of wood people want to get rid of for free is pine or fir which takes 4 times as much to match hardwood heating, and takes more careful stone pipe maintenance to not build up creosote and get a chimney fire, a lot of people exclusively burn hardwood just because of the risks of burning softwood and causing a fire from buildup. Even myself being "lucky" to have Emerald Ash Bore which has killed 95% of ash trees and given me "free" dead hardwood for the last 25 years wouldn't consider it free.
Say you do have a wooded plot, the first year or two it might not be so bad, lots of wood near the edges where you can drive up to to load and move, but what about after that when you have to go deeper into the woods? You need to get in there, it may not be accessible by truck or get swampy where you will get stuck, and now you are considering a tractor or other vehicle, a decent expense to obtain, in order to not have to carry all your wood an armload at a time through the woods longer and longer distances. Chains and gas and oil for cutting it aren't expensive but not free, nor is maintaining a gas chainsaw if you seriously use it for all your heating wood, doubly so if you aren't already mechanically inclined enough to repair engines. And then you still have to split it. There are cheap splitters, but cheap spliters will only split the wood that took little effort to split with an axe, and less than half the wood you cut is going to be that easy to split straight grain wood, so you are either going to need more for a splitter or to be physically fit and capable enough to split a lot of gnarly wood by hand. Some people enjoy it for the exercise, I do, but not everyone is up to it, and it is such a hard physical activity that you need to be in good health to maintain it.
Also splitting mauls are a gimmick, they take far more effort than a long handled axe and are only a good option if you are otherwise incapable of using an axe. Speed applies more kinetic energy than mass, kinetic energy is half of the mass times velocity squared, so doubling the mass you are throwing around is far less effective at applying force into splitting than trying to double your swing speed. And that is the biggest "trick" to a good axe split, swing speed, which is why you want a long handle. Mauls are far slower than an axe, take more energy than an axe to lift and swing, and are far less capable of splitting more gnarly wood as the more aggressive edge angle has a much harder time splitting into and separating the grain as much of the energy merely crushes wood fibers before it bites in and starts wedging. If an axe can't do it, a maul won't do it even more, and then you are getting into a sledge hammer and steel wedges anyways, and a wedge and sledge are easier to set and more maneuverable than a maul with a big ass handle on it.
Burning wood is a decent way to heat a house if someone is always at the house in regular 8 hour intervals or more, but it has a lot of caveats and is not what I would call free. More like subsidizing a portion of the cost of with hard physical labor.
Re: How to live on $432 a month in America
#566Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I look at some of my favourite writers, philosophers, and scientists from past eras quite a few of them died in their 60s and 70s. Medicine and nutrition was poorly understood for that time. What they had in common was wealth and professions that wasn’t backbreaking labor. Child mortality was high and that is what really drags the average age down.
It was not just child mortality. It was adults dying from diseases and infectiona we don't die of anymore too.
And smoking. Everybody in my parents' generation smoked and most of them died young.
Re: How to live on $432 a month in America
#567Earlier quoted context omitted.
> that means you don’t get the latest iPhone Why do people always have to call out "the latest iPhone". Most people can't afford the latest iPhone, nor do they try. You might as well say a Lamborghini. Why can't you be honest and just say "a smartphone".
Even a brand new iPhone 16 is “only” $800. Plans for unlimited internet can be had for less than $40 a month. Using that phone for 5 years would only add like $60 to their total monthly expenses. Is that truly unattainable? Is that really what is keeping people from buying a house?
That is a shit ton of money for someone living in a poor rural area living on the bare minimum. It is only cheap if you are living in a city where you are earning far more money.
Re: How to live on $432 a month in America
#568Earlier quoted context omitted.
I will say, at this income level you're on Medicaid. It would be more than nothing but very basic, and if you're using government assistance than you aren't really "escaping" modernity, you're actually living off of the economic surplus of all the people working hard in the rat race. (Don't misinterpret me as saying that social safety nets are bad, I am all for them, but I'm just saying - if the author of this articl…
I was on Medicaid for three or four years and had much better healthcare than when I was on an employer plan. Employer Plan w/ a shoulder injury: no MRI until three months of PT (physical therapy without knowing what the issue is????). Medicaid w/ a foot injury: MRI, physical therapy, option for surgery.
I see a couple of specialist that explicitly state they aren’t taking any more Medicaid patients. I’m not on Medicaid. But I assume if you have any type of need for more than just a GP, you’re going to find your choices more limited.
Re: How to live on $432 a month in America
#569Just make sure you don't get sick.
At that income level and in a blue state, there might actually be pretty good health coverage. I've got a relative who lost his job last year, his wife gave birth in Long Island soon after and they paid pretty close to nothing.
"Pretty close to nothing" can still an absolutely massive expense when you are living on 1/4 the pay as others in more urban and prosperous areas though.
Re: How to live on $432 a month in America
#570I think the author is arguing against their own point with the illustration they chose. The very last picture can be found in the Wikipedia page for the Homestead Act and, two jumps later, one can find themselves in the Dutch version of "Sod house" [1] which has this to say: > The living conditions there were miserable. Due to the construction method, the room was difficult to heat, it was damp and teeming with vermi…
I lived in a place purely heated by a wood stove in the Yukon. It was glorious, easily best heat and nicest feel ever. When it was past -40 I’d get up at 1am to put in more wood, otherwise I’d have to spend 30 minutes in the morning lighting it again.
Places heated with wood stoves are NOT damp or miserable. I loved it. Working on doing it again.