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An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

theaiunderwriter.substack.com

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Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#561

Post by the_other »

csallen wrote: post #466
djoldman wrote: post #332

I don't condone or endorse breaking any laws. That said, trademark laws like life of the author + 95 years are absolutely absurd. The ONLY reason to have any law prohibiting unlicensed copying of intangible property is to incentivize the creation of intangible property. The reasoning being that if you don't allow people to exclude 3rd party copying, then the primary party will assumedly not receive compensation for t…

> The ONLY reason to have any law prohibiting unlicensed copying of intangible property is to incentivize the creation of intangible property. That was the original purpose. It has since been coopted by people and corporations whose incentives are to make as much money as possible by monopolizing valuable intangible "property" for as long as they can. And the chief strategic move these people have made is to convince…

Philosophers were waaaay ahead of this game.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#562

Post by xandrius »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #559
KronisLV wrote: post #551

I think the cat is out of the bag when it comes to generative AI, the same way how various LLMs for programming have been trained even on codebases that they had no business using, yet nobody hasn’t and won’t stop them. It’s the same as what’s going to happen with deepfakes and such, as the technology inevitably gets better. > Hayao Miyazaki’s Japanese animation company, Studio Ghibli, produces beautiful and famously…

> It makes me wonder though - whether it’s more valuable to spend a year on a scene that most people won’t pay that much attention to In this case, yes it is. People do pay attention to the result overall. Studio Ghibli has got famous because people notice what they produce. Now people might not notice every single detail but I believe that it is this overall mindset and culture that enables the whole unique final pr…

I think most like the vibes, not the fact it took ages to make.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#563

Post by stavros »

noduerme wrote: post #500
planb wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So if I want to make an ad for a soap company, and I get an AI to reproduce a likeness of Harrison Ford, does that mean I can use that likeness in my soap commercials without paying him? No, you can't! But it shouldn't be the tool that prohibits this. You are not allowed to use existing images of Harrison Ford for your commercial and you also will be sued into oblivion by Disney if you paint a picture of Mickey Mou…

Well, precisely. What then is the AI company's justification for charging money to paint a picture of Harrison Ford to its users? The justification so far seems to have been loosely based on the idea that derivative artworks are protected as free expression. That argument loses currency if these are not considered derivative but more like highly compressed images in a novel, obfuscated compression format. Layers and…

Because I can pay a painter to paint me a picture of Harrison Ford, I just can't then use that to sell things.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#564

Post by Qualitionion »

xandrius wrote: post #562
mytailorisrich wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes me wonder though - whether it’s more valuable to spend a year on a scene that most people won’t pay that much attention to In this case, yes it is. People do pay attention to the result overall. Studio Ghibli has got famous because people notice what they produce. Now people might not notice every single detail but I believe that it is this overall mindset and culture that enables the whole unique final pr…

I think most like the vibes, not the fact it took ages to make.

Its the quality or level of detail.

Which might indicate an environment were quality is above quantity

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#565

Post by M95D »

KronisLV wrote: post #551

I think the cat is out of the bag when it comes to generative AI, the same way how various LLMs for programming have been trained even on codebases that they had no business using, yet nobody hasn’t and won’t stop them. It’s the same as what’s going to happen with deepfakes and such, as the technology inevitably gets better. > Hayao Miyazaki’s Japanese animation company, Studio Ghibli, produces beautiful and famously…

It's a very clear difference between a cheap animation and Ghibli. Anyone can see it.

In the first case, there's only one static image for an entire scene, scrolled and zoomed, and if they feel generous, there would be an overlay with another static image that slides over the first at a constant speed and direction. It feels dead.

In the second case, each frame is different. There's chaotic motions such as wind and there's character movement with a purpose, even in the background, there's always something happening in the animation, there's life.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#566

Post by happyraul »

KronisLV wrote: post #551

I think the cat is out of the bag when it comes to generative AI, the same way how various LLMs for programming have been trained even on codebases that they had no business using, yet nobody hasn’t and won’t stop them. It’s the same as what’s going to happen with deepfakes and such, as the technology inevitably gets better. > Hayao Miyazaki’s Japanese animation company, Studio Ghibli, produces beautiful and famously…

To me the question of what activity/method is more "valuable" in the context of art is kind of missing the point of art.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#567

Post by aucisson_masque »

jl6 wrote: post #508
djoldman wrote: post #332

I don't condone or endorse breaking any laws. That said, trademark laws like life of the author + 95 years are absolutely absurd. The ONLY reason to have any law prohibiting unlicensed copying of intangible property is to incentivize the creation of intangible property. The reasoning being that if you don't allow people to exclude 3rd party copying, then the primary party will assumedly not receive compensation for t…

> There are approximately zero people who decide they'll create something if they're protected for 95 years after their death but won't if it's 94 years. I’m sure you’re right for individual authors who are driven by a creative spark, but for, say, movies made by large studios, the length of copyright is directly tied to the value of the movie as an asset. If that asset generates revenue for 120 years, then it’s slig…

> If that asset generates revenue for 120 years, then it’s slightly more valuable than an asset that generates revenue for 119 years

Movies for instance make most of their revenue in the 2 week following their release in theater. Beyond, peoole who wanted to see it had already seen it and the others don't care.

I'd argue it's similar for other art form, even for music. The gain at the very end of the copyright lifetime is extremely marginal and doesn't influence spending decision, which is mostly measured on a return basis of at most 10 years.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#568

Post by CaptainFever »

codedokode wrote: post #240
mlsu wrote: post #137

I was really hoping that the conversation around AI art would at least be partially centered on the perhaps now dated "2008 pirate party" idea that intellectual property, the royalty system, the draconian copyright laws that we have today are deeply silly, rooted in a fiction, and used over and over again, primarily by the rich and powerful, to stifle original ideas and hold back cultural innovation. Unfortunately, i…

I don't understand how protecting Disney characters prevents development of art or science. Why do you need them at all? There is lot of liberally licensed art and I think today there are more artists than ever in history. Also making a billion dollar business by using hard work of talented people for free and without permission is not cool. The movie they downloaded from Pirate Bay for free took probably man-years o…

For the last paragraph, it already exists: Stable Attribution.

It doesn't work. If you put your handmade drawing inside, it'll also tell you what images were mixed to make it, even though it was entirely human-made.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#569

Post by CaptainFever »

midtake wrote: post #530

Turning everything into Ghibli has renewed my love of photography as I search my phone for the perfect pics to Ghiblify. I didn't even know there was a movie, The Boy and the Heron, released by Studio Ghibli in 2023, but now I am going to watch it (streaming on Max but I might as well buy it if it has replay value, which Studio Ghib movies tend to).

This sounds similar to how piracy actually increases sales in the long run, even though IP holders hate it.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#570

Post by johanvts »

jl6 wrote: post #508
djoldman wrote: post #332

I don't condone or endorse breaking any laws. That said, trademark laws like life of the author + 95 years are absolutely absurd. The ONLY reason to have any law prohibiting unlicensed copying of intangible property is to incentivize the creation of intangible property. The reasoning being that if you don't allow people to exclude 3rd party copying, then the primary party will assumedly not receive compensation for t…

> There are approximately zero people who decide they'll create something if they're protected for 95 years after their death but won't if it's 94 years. I’m sure you’re right for individual authors who are driven by a creative spark, but for, say, movies made by large studios, the length of copyright is directly tied to the value of the movie as an asset. If that asset generates revenue for 120 years, then it’s slig…

For movies in particular the tail is very thin. Only very few 50 year old movies are ever watched. Was any commercial movie ever financed without a view to making a profit in the box office/initial release?
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