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The Demoralization is just Beginning

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Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#561

Post by gizmo »

berkanunal wrote: post #498
emsy wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s true for Germany. There recently was a case of a podcaster whose acquaintances were tapped and was apprehended while walking with his 1yo for posting memes. An AfD politician was fined 6000€ for posting crime statistics. A man had his house searched for sharing a meme of calling a politician something along the lines of „idiot“. There’s also the 60 minutes interview where prosecutors brag about confiscating devi…

> An AfD politician was fined 6000€ for posting crime statistics. No, she was not fined for posting crime statistics [0]. > Kaiser published a tile on her social media accounts with the text "Afghanistan refugees; Hamburg SPD mayor for 'unbureaucratic' admission; Welcome culture for gang rapes?" [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie-Th%C3%A9r%C3%A8se_Kaiser...

> [media posts] reinforce the "negatively abbreviated representation" and fuels an atmosphere of fear and rejection. In explaining the verdict, Halbfas also made it clear: "Those who attack human dignity cannot invoke freedom of speech."

She was found guilty of reinforcing negative stereotypes and by doing so she "violated the human dignity of a distinct group of Afghan refugees".

Where is the line between having anti-immigration politics and harming refugees? If free speech means anything it should at least protect political opinions, and that includes politics many of us find distasteful or racist.

Dragging somebody through the courts and fining them heavily for a simple social media post is pretty extreme. If her post was deserving of a €6000 fine what kind of commentary will get you fined €1000? Which opinions will get you a visit from the cops and a stern talking to? Who decides where the line is between acceptable political opinion and unacceptable hate speech? How are regular people supposed to tell the difference? Or are regular people just expected not talk about controversial subjects at all if they can't afford to pay a €6000 fine?

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#562

Post by FergusArgyll »

berkanunal wrote: post #498
emsy wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s true for Germany. There recently was a case of a podcaster whose acquaintances were tapped and was apprehended while walking with his 1yo for posting memes. An AfD politician was fined 6000€ for posting crime statistics. A man had his house searched for sharing a meme of calling a politician something along the lines of „idiot“. There’s also the 60 minutes interview where prosecutors brag about confiscating devi…

> An AfD politician was fined 6000€ for posting crime statistics. No, she was not fined for posting crime statistics [0]. > Kaiser published a tile on her social media accounts with the text "Afghanistan refugees; Hamburg SPD mayor for 'unbureaucratic' admission; Welcome culture for gang rapes?" [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie-Th%C3%A9r%C3%A8se_Kaiser...

"the Rotenburg District Court concluded that Kaiser had taken the quoted information out of context in the post text and knowingly risked that the tile would be perceived as incitement to hatred by an objective observer. Additionally, the rhetorical question violated the human dignity of a distinct group of Afghan refugees."

- Wikipedia

You're ok with that?!

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#563

Post by econ »

The mining industry is also subject to fakery. We don't have a database with all trades in it. We for the most part don't know what people are paying. The bid and ask prices are real? What part of those transactions involve things that only exist on paper?

Fort Knox is the funniest example. For the financial theather it doesn't matter if there is any physical gold.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#564

Post by xyst »

Restoring “American greatness” is well beyond switching to the gold standard or “brain drain” of the world.

We need a paradigm shift from what we call neoclassical economics and neoliberal economic theory. The author sort of hints at it but goes off the rails with his conclusions, but this country was built on a _strong_ middle class. Purchasing power of the middle class has been decimated/stagnated.

Public companies no longer invest in the wellbeing of their employees (ie, increasing wages) or invest back into the company to improve efficiency and remain competitive. Instead we see massive amounts of that profit generated by labor invested into short term _stock manipulation_ via stock buybacks.

The endless thirst for paper growth and infinite profitability is ultimately not sustainable. The end result of this rapacious capitalism is what we see today:

- 40 year wage stagnation of middle class and minimal chance of upward mobility for poor

- loss of collective bargaining and via non-existent unions or decrease in participation

- loss of safety nets such as pensions

- increased cost of living due to corporations endless need for paper growth

(list can go on, but I’m typing on a phone)

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#565

Post by gruez »

FergusArgyll wrote: post #544
dudefeliciano wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is there any reliable source for that "going to jail in europe for posting memes"? I keep seeing this argument in online arguments, but can not find a credible source

"A man has been jailed today after pleading guilty to posting grossly offensive messages on social media." - The Crown Prosecution Service https://www.cps.gov.uk/north-west/news/man-jailed-offensive-...

This hinges entirely on what the captions were. What did they say? Even US free speech laws doesn't protect certain forms of speech (eg. "imminent lawless action"), so whether it's a meme or not holds little relevance.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#566

Post by vincnetas »

dudefeliciano wrote: post #455
RivieraKid wrote: post #440

This started out interesting but then the red flags started to pop up. Going to jail in Europe for posting memes, gold standard, salivating over doing something that benefits the US and hurts countries that are already poorer than the US. He has strong opinions on economics, but doesn't understand it. His points about economics are partially true but either subtly incorrect or interpreted incorrectly.

is there any reliable source for that "going to jail in europe for posting memes"? I keep seeing this argument in online arguments, but can not find a credible source

meme is a very vague term. it could have been death threat meme. its like saying "he went to jail for speaking". well its possible and might be totally justified. depends on what was said. for example death treats, bomb threats, scamming people. its all fits under "he was speaking"

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#567

Post by dudefeliciano »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #503
dudefeliciano wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok but I was asking for some reliable sources, not a paragraph of anecdotes. I could go google each one myself, but I don't even want to imagine in what kind of hellhole websites I will end up in if I do that.

German police raid homes of activists for making anti-Israel social media posts https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-police-raid-prop... (Trump also just tweeted that activists will be imprisoned)

I find it interesting that the first replies i got were about racists, nazi sympathizers, afd people and so on (who it turns out never got jailed, but fined, and not for "posting a meme" but for going against well known laws against inciting violence).

Yours is the only reply (yet) that talks about Palestine, that I find much more interesting in this context. It should be noted that pro palestinian protesters have been arrested in the US too, so I don't know if it's really a good point when comparing "freedom of speech" between the US and Germany.

Unless what you meant was "freedom of speech" is an illusions and Americans are deluded into thinking they have more of it.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#568

Post by jsiepkes »

FergusArgyll wrote: post #544
dudefeliciano wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is there any reliable source for that "going to jail in europe for posting memes"? I keep seeing this argument in online arguments, but can not find a credible source

"A man has been jailed today after pleading guilty to posting grossly offensive messages on social media." - The Crown Prosecution Service https://www.cps.gov.uk/north-west/news/man-jailed-offensive-...

This wasn't someone posting just a meme online or anything. The guy was posting racist shit during civil unrest [1]. Literally throwing oil on a fire. Yeah, you are going to get prosecuted for that.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gdww5lx2vo

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#569

Post by rayiner »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #474
t-3 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U.S. hegemony has also destroyed and subverted democracies and propped up very illiberal dictatorships. Protecting democracy for white countries only isn't exactly what I think of when I think "world protector of liberal democracy".

The U.S. hasn't been perfect, but I'll take it over the alternatives. And, I'd say protecting democracy for "white countries only" is a simplification. If you're talking about Europe, then we have to consider that the U.S. has also pretty famously fought against European nations and that our subsequent "protection" there was to serve as a bulwark to maintain a world order that benefited the U.S. and democracy. And, y…

> Many do not want democracy and the alternative for the U.S. is frequently to topple regimes and attempt to stand up completely new governments (i.e. nation-building). This is an extraordinarily costly endeavor with a high failure rate.

Yes, and this is one of the stupidest things about American foreign policy. Every european democracy spent hundreds of years as an authoritarian regime first, while it developed the underlying infrastructure of state and civil society. America repeatedly trying to short-circuit that process by toppling authoritarian regimes is in the long run bad for the people in those countries. Those countries are not ready for democracy and the fledgling democracies that the U.S. has tried to install, like in Iraq, have led to horrors.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#570

Post by econ »

rachofsunshine wrote: post #469
RivieraKid wrote: post #440

This started out interesting but then the red flags started to pop up. Going to jail in Europe for posting memes, gold standard, salivating over doing something that benefits the US and hurts countries that are already poorer than the US. He has strong opinions on economics, but doesn't understand it. His points about economics are partially true but either subtly incorrect or interpreted incorrectly.

There's this piece of product-management wisdom that I've been thinking about lately, which is that users almost always understand their problems better than you do. If the metrics say things are going well, and your users say everything sucks, your metrics are probably wrong. But the complement to that is that users mostly suck at solutions: you understand the constraints and difficulties of your product better than…

The best person to implement or flesh out a solution is also rarely the one who came up with it.
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