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Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

bbc.com

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Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#561

Post by the_other »

sangeeth96 wrote: post #498
fdb345 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

message retention has literally NEVER been used as incrimination in a court of law. So you are wrong.

Umm, isn’t this related? https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/26/24141801/ftc-amazon-antit...

Yes, but if I’m reading it right, Amazon staff were already inder instruxtion to retain and share data relevant to an ongoing investigation. They were aware of the process and, if the article is to be believed, worked against the instructions.

That’s quite different from turning disappearing messages on when you’re not explicitly under insteuctions to keep records.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#562

Post by ben_w »

smsm42 wrote: post #524
ljm wrote: post #358

Fundamentally, I think the issue is more about technical literacy amongst the political establishment who consistently rely on the fallacy that having nothing to hide means you have nothing to fear. Especially in the UK which operates as a paternalistic state and enjoys authoritarian support across all parties. On the authoritarianism: these laws are always worded in such a way that they can be applied or targeted va…

It's not literacy. They don't care. They need control, and if establishing control means increased risks for you, it's not something they see as a negative factor. It's your problem, not theirs.

The government put in restrictions against using certain powers in the Investigatory Powers Act to spy on members of parliament (unless the Prime Minister says so, section 26), so I think they're just oblivious to the risk model of "when hackers are involved, the computer isn't capable of knowing the order wasn't legal".

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2016/25/section/26

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#563

Post by gnfargbl »

IceHegel wrote: post #430

I'm sympathetic to the J.D. Vance angle, which is that European governments are increasingly scared of their own people. This is not doing a lot to change my mind.

To give you a counterpoint: from this side of the pond it is extremely surprising to see how effective Vance's speech has been in distracting a good proportion of the American public. Which, I have to suspect, was the real point.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#564

Post by noirbot »

tholdem wrote: post #453
bArray wrote: post #106

Too right, it was far more problematic than they ever made out. > The UK government's demand came through a "technical capability notice" under the Investigatory Powers Act (IPA), requiring Apple to create a backdoor that would allow British security officials to access encrypted user data globally. The order would have compromised Apple's Advanced Data Protection feature, which provides end-to-end encryption for iCl…

> What concerns me more is that Apple is the only company audibly making a stand. But still Apple operates in China and Google does not. This is weird to me. Google left China when the government wanted all keys to the citizens data. Apple is making a stand when it's visible and does not threaten their business too much. Apple is not really in the business of protecting your data, they are just good at marketing and…

China feels like an important difference here though. Google leaving China doesn't protect Chinese citizen's data any more than Apple turning off ADP in the UK does. As far as I know, Apple isn't pretending that the data of Chinese users is encrypted from their government, and the way they're complying with the Chinese laws shouldn't impact the security of users outside of China.

Apple pulling ADP from UK users is similar - the UK has passed an ill-considered law that Apple doesn't think it can win a court case over, so they're complying in a way that minimally effects the security of people outside the UK. If, as someone outside the UK, I travel to the UK with ADP turned on, my understanding is it won't disable itself.

Would you have been more satisfied if Apple just pulled out of the UK entirely? Bricked every iPhone ever purchased there? Google doesn't seem to have made any stand for security ever - them pulling out of China feels more to do with it meaning they wouldn't have had access to Chinese users' data, which is what they really want.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#565

Post by h4ck_th3_pl4n3t »

bArray wrote: post #106

Too right, it was far more problematic than they ever made out. > The UK government's demand came through a "technical capability notice" under the Investigatory Powers Act (IPA), requiring Apple to create a backdoor that would allow British security officials to access encrypted user data globally. The order would have compromised Apple's Advanced Data Protection feature, which provides end-to-end encryption for iCl…

Remember that the last fiasco was related to 2FA stores being stored unencrypted on google's backup cloud, namely google authenticator.

And yes, it's still pwnable this way, and happens regularly.

Everything in the cloud is not yours anymore, and you should always treat it like that.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#566

Post by eugenekolo »

LuciOfStars wrote: post #7

Not gonna lie, I expected Apple to just kind of roll over and take the blow on this one. Interesting.

They heavily compete on "privacy" and "security", so I wouldn't expect them to. Additionally, once you start rolling with one government, every one wants you to do something for them while offering you no additional money for the work and weakening of your project.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#567

Post by wonderwonder »

mtrovo wrote: post #363
wonderwonder wrote: post #129

The UK wanted access to anyone's data. Not just UK citizens and then additionally added regulations forbidding apple to disclose this. UK is ~3-4% of apples income. While I appreciate Apples actions here, I wish they would make a real stand here and pull completely out of the UK.

I really wish they would sit down and negotiate this more openly. The silence from the other players is what really makes me uncomfortable. The fact that only Apple is making a stand against this ask is really scary.

Agreed, the UK is speed running 1984 right in front of us.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#568

Post by izacus »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #496
cynicalsecurity wrote: post #409

Could this have been a reason UK pushed to separation from the EU? EU is all for privacy while UK is slowly drifting towards becoming a Stasi state.

This is blatantly false. The EU has been pushing to pass the Chat Control law for the last 3 years which is even worse because at least in the UK the government would still need to get a warrant for the data they want whereas the EU wants to analyze your chat messages, emails and pictures in real time without cause or need to justify themselves.

The Chat Control law was voted down and it would not apply for UK if they'd still be in EU.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#569

Post by jirf_dev »

15155 wrote: post #401
kingkongjaffa wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially in the UK which operates as a paternalistic state and enjoys authoritarian support across all parties. This seemed strange to point out. It’s not really any more or less “paternalistic” than most western nations including the US.

Folks in the United States aren't routinely arrested for Facebook posts.

Of course they are. Violent threats and admitting illegal activity on social media can lead to arrests in the US. By being so unspecific your comment does not really foster good discussion on the topic. You should describe what kind of posts they are being arrested for and which laws/protections in the UK you are specifically criticizing.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#570

Post by alex-robbins »

AutistiCoder wrote: post #520
IshKebab wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What concerns me more is that Apple is the only company audibly making a stand. Meta also said they would make a stand if a similar request comes for WhatsApp. I'm not going to hold my breath though.

They wouldn't even be able to. WA is end-to-end encrypted.

WhatsApp is closed source. They could backdoor it if they wanted to (or were forced to).
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