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Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

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Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#561

Post by danw1979 »

throwawaythekey wrote: post #510
zanek wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading the comments on this thread. Multiple teenagers (one in Australia) died from the drugs distributed on Silk Road. Ross was ok with selling grenades, body parts, etc on there. But everyone is saying he served his time ???

As an Australian who had friends who bought product on silk road my understanding was: 1) It's safer to buy something online and have it mailed to your house than go pick it up from some shady dude. 2) On the street you would often get duds or spiked product, online reputations were built up over time and important to be maintained (think uber/ebay stars). Overall silk road probably increased the amount of drug activ…

An 18 year old lad from my village, who had just started a job programming, bought a drug from an online “pharmacy” and it turned out to be spiked with a synthetic opioid (N-pyrrolidino-etonitazene) and he died in his sleep at home, alone.

On your point about spiked products - it’s clearly a problem for online illegal drugs as well as those bought on the street.

The problem is, you don’t get to leave a bad review if you’re dead.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#562

Post by YPPH »

underseacables wrote: post #281

I thought it was a ridiculously long sentence compared to what other people have received. 10 years was right. That's enough time. I know that he was accused of hiring a hitman, but he was never convicted of that. It should have never been used in his sentencing. I think the government tried to make an example out of Ross Ulbrich, and it was a miscarriage of justice.

The solution is a commutation, not a pardon.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#563

Post by bloudermilk »

joe_the_user wrote: post #390
bloudermilk wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think much changed, really. The contraband and services offered on these marketplaces has always been backed by criminal enterprises. Mostly the markets provided level of indirection that made purchasing palatable and gave a false sense of safety.

Online markets for sex work allowed women to operate far more safely than "the street" allow. I had friends who were affected by the crackdown on craigslist etc.

I sincerely didn't mean to minimize the harm to sex workers, which is devastating.

My point is rather that an online marketplace in the absence of decriminalization and reform can only provide a marginal increase in safety. Sex workers marketing on Backpage, Craigslist, Onlyfans, and IG still face a great deal of risk of violence, pressure from pimps, and prosecution by law enforcement. It's a deeply complex systematic issue which can't be fixed by a website.

For drugs in particular, darknet marketplaces primarily rely on unspeakably violent criminal enterprises upstream. The consumers, sellers, and communities implicated in this supply chain are all losers in this system. The cartels are the winners and the global "war on drugs" establishment are a close second place.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#565

Post by mr_00ff00 »

ecocentrik wrote: post #411
insane_dreamer wrote: post #301

So does this mean the war on drugs is finally over and we're going to stop mass incarceration for non-violent drug offenses? If so, that _would_ be good news.

He also just classified drug cartels as terrorist organizations so drug dealers are now technically facilitating terrorism. Apart from liberating this white collar drug dealer, all of his other actions have escalated the war on drugs. While he was signing these orders, he claimed that drug cartels were responsible for up to 300,000 American deaths annually (a completely fabricated number.)

https://www.bop.gov/inmates/fsa/overview.jsp

Feel like you have already made up your mind on what you want to believe, but he has actually helped a lot with non-violent drug offenders. That’s part of the reason poor communities (especially Latino) have voted for him despite harsh border policies.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#566

Post by tveita »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #301

So does this mean the war on drugs is finally over and we're going to stop mass incarceration for non-violent drug offenses? If so, that _would_ be good news.

Not going to post this link to every post where it's relevant, but:

  Trump returned to that theme in November 2022, when he officially launched his 2024 presidential campaign. "We're going to be asking everyone who sells drugs, gets caught selling drugs, to receive the death penalty for their heinous acts," he said.
https://reason.com/2023/10/24/trump-who-freed-drug-offenders...

You'll note there are comments here saying saying that he generally keeps his campaign promises. On the bright side I don't agree, but on the other hand I think he does often enough, especially for the "well of course he didn't literally mean that" ones.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#567

Post by kortilla »

contravariant wrote: post #551
lbriner wrote: post #537

Someone might have already pointed it out but for me, the sentence of RA is not the main issue, the issue is allowing a single person to stamp through an entire legal system and undermine all of the time and money that is invested in it, even if that person is a president. I suspect that the idea originally was to give some safety valve but if it is used more than a few times by a President, it makes a mockery of it…

The main failure here is the failure of the elections system to elect anyone reasonable. On its own it is not that bad an idea for someone who carries a mandate of the majority of the population to be able to grant pardons.

All of the presidents pardon tons of people unpalatable to the other side of the political spectrum. They usually just save it for the end of their term so it doesn’t cause too much noise.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#568

Post by pjc50 »

kybernetyk wrote: post #547
zanek wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading the comments on this thread. Multiple teenagers (one in Australia) died from the drugs distributed on Silk Road. Ross was ok with selling grenades, body parts, etc on there. But everyone is saying he served his time ???

Smart people can differentiate between a market place and the sellers themselves.

This is why people only blame the DZOQBX brands that sell on Amazon for review fraud and not Amazon themselves, who are blamelessly hosting all those fraudulent sellers.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#569

Post by falcor84 »

contravariant wrote: post #551
lbriner wrote: post #537

Someone might have already pointed it out but for me, the sentence of RA is not the main issue, the issue is allowing a single person to stamp through an entire legal system and undermine all of the time and money that is invested in it, even if that person is a president. I suspect that the idea originally was to give some safety valve but if it is used more than a few times by a President, it makes a mockery of it…

The main failure here is the failure of the elections system to elect anyone reasonable. On its own it is not that bad an idea for someone who carries a mandate of the majority of the population to be able to grant pardons.

Why is it not a bad idea? Isn't it then just an example of Tyranny of the Majority?

Taken to the extreme, we could have an impartial legal system putting in prison criminals from an even mix of society, and then the president pardoning everyone from the majority group, leaving in prison only the minorities.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#570

Post by agumonkey »

offsign wrote: post #487
rappatic wrote: post #164

I think his original sentence was absolutely deserved—even though the charge of hiring a contract killer to assassinate his business competition may have been dropped, I think it's clear he did many things in the same vein. Even if you support his original pursuit of a free and open online marketplace, I think most people would agree he took it a bridge too far in the end. That said, I do think he absolutely deserved…

"he took it a bridge too far" is a massive trivialization. The guy operated a marketplace for illegal goods in order to enrich himself. The illegality wasn't just incidental, it was literally his business model -- by flouting the law, he enjoyed massive market benefit (minimal competition, lack of regulation, high margins etc) by exploiting the arbitrage that the rest of us follow the rules. Said a different way, he…

I'm afraid that the current administration is fond on this business model. Borderline criminal business models behind curtains.
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