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Who died and left the US $7B?

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Re: Who died and left the US $7B?

#561

Post by willcipriano »

hgomersall wrote: post #555
willcipriano wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, its implemented then?

"implemented"? What does that mean? MMT accurately describes the monetary operations and fiscal constraints of a sovereign government (i.e. with their own currency) and from which you can predict outcomes with a high degree of reliability. Insomuch as "implemented" means using the policy prescriptions (specifically, the job guarantee), there are no countries doing that, but various real world experiments have touched…

I said the political will does not exist (in several different ways) now you say:

> Insomuch as "implemented" means using the policy prescriptions (specifically, the job guarantee), there are no countries doing that, but various real world experiments have touched on it.

Something that you can't implement, doesn't work. In practice MMT is a smokescreen for politicians to print money for their friends.

Re: Who died and left the US $7B?

#562

Post by hgomersall »

willcipriano wrote: post #561
hgomersall wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"implemented"? What does that mean? MMT accurately describes the monetary operations and fiscal constraints of a sovereign government (i.e. with their own currency) and from which you can predict outcomes with a high degree of reliability. Insomuch as "implemented" means using the policy prescriptions (specifically, the job guarantee), there are no countries doing that, but various real world experiments have touched…

I said the political will does not exist (in several different ways) now you say: > Insomuch as "implemented" means using the policy prescriptions (specifically, the job guarantee), there are no countries doing that, but various real world experiments have touched on it. Something that you can't implement, doesn't work. In practice MMT is a smokescreen for politicians to print money for their friends.

The point is, you don't "implement" MMT. It's a useful framework for analysis regardless of what policies you choose. If we could get to the point of discussing monetary and fiscal operations from a sound basis, then we can start debating policies, but we're so far from that at the moment.

Re: Who died and left the US $7B?

#563

Post by RHSeeger »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #546
RHSeeger wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you make it so the tax basis stays low so a sale would have to pay tax on 95% of the value instead of 25%, she doesn't sell, you don't even get the tax on the 25% and the tax base stays lower because she doesn't switch to the more productive investment. Eventually, someone will sell it. And, at that point, if the tax basis stays with it, all taxes that weren't payed before are payed then. Having the tax basis tr…

> Eventually, someone will sell it. "In the long run, we are all dead." -John Maynard Keynes "Eventually" could be a thousand years from now, or after the fall of the nation. More to the point, compounding interest is a powerful force. Suppose you have an asset valued at $1000 which is generating annual returns of 10%. You know of another investment that would return 11%, and also employ more people etc. If you had t…

But by that logic, we should force people to pay taxes on everything they own that goes up in value, on a regular basis.

My point wasn't that "not forcing the sale won't impact taxes at all". It was more to point out that not forcing the sale doesn't magically make the taxes disappear. It just leave them unrealized in the same way they would if the original owner was still alive and owning them. They'll just get paid later.

Your post made it sound like, by not forcing the sale and taxation, those taxes are completely lost the society.

Re: Who died and left the US $7B?

#564

Post by 082349872349872 »

gradschoolfail wrote: post #551
aebtebeten wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Warrior nobility systems farm farmers A farm is a system with many living beings, but most of the benefits accrue to those we call the farmers. A farmer farm is a called a fief ( feudum in latin), so it's no surprise that under feudalism most of the benefits accrue to those who have control over heaps of feuda. Would it be true that under capitalism most of the benefits accrue to those who have control over heaps o…

Morally speaking, is ((profit negative externality) (speculation liquidity provision)) a tautology i could get any of u curious about? It motivates a search for the mystical beast: Marxist financier (not the pastry?) (Not to mention elucidates the boney/HF-inspired principle of intertwining* (wrt scaling — CENDEC, decentralizing by centralizing — marxist-financing-in-itself)) * https://archive.is/FxHSl https://news.y…

TIL; I was more familiar with a different product of Lorraine: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSWv-gr...

Re: Who died and left the US $7B?

#565

Post by mensetmanusman »

geysersam wrote: post #183
metacritic12 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious fix is to not step up basis on death. The estate tax already means that the estate of a person who dies may need to sell / divide / split stuff to pay the government. There already is no fundamental protection for an asset passing unscathed from a parent to a child. I don't see how not stepping up basis qualitatively changes this. And your argument of "you want a child to be able to inherit a family busin…

It's a funny argument the one about the family farm. In this case it's not even about inheritance tax. It's a sob story about a guy who couldn't inherit the farm because his dad owed the state money because they had let him not pay tax on his capital gains for a long time. Sorry for not tearing up.

Yes, let’s implement this so that all farms are owned by large corporations.

Re: Who died and left the US $7B?

#566

Post by willcipriano »

hgomersall wrote: post #562
willcipriano wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said the political will does not exist (in several different ways) now you say: > Insomuch as "implemented" means using the policy prescriptions (specifically, the job guarantee), there are no countries doing that, but various real world experiments have touched on it. Something that you can't implement, doesn't work. In practice MMT is a smokescreen for politicians to print money for their friends.

The point is, you don't "implement" MMT. It's a useful framework for analysis regardless of what policies you choose. If we could get to the point of discussing monetary and fiscal operations from a sound basis, then we can start debating policies, but we're so far from that at the moment.

I'd argue a less correct framework that you could actually sell to voters and politicians would be more successful by the virtue of its policy actually being implemented (not just the fun bits).

I can find you far more people who wish to abolish the fed and return to the gold standard than people who are willing to have the levels of taxation required to limit the inflation caused by funding the government with unsound money.

MMT's advocates policies would work if it wasn't for that pesky democracy and realities around campaign finance.

Re: Who died and left the US $7B?

#567

Post by hgomersall »

willcipriano wrote: post #566
hgomersall wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, you don't "implement" MMT. It's a useful framework for analysis regardless of what policies you choose. If we could get to the point of discussing monetary and fiscal operations from a sound basis, then we can start debating policies, but we're so far from that at the moment.

I'd argue a less correct framework that you could actually sell to voters and politicians would be more successful by the virtue of its policy actually being implemented (not just the fun bits). I can find you far more people who wish to abolish the fed and return to the gold standard than people who are willing to have the levels of taxation required to limit the inflation caused by funding the government with unsou…

Right, so I suggest now you're highlighting your lack of understanding. What do you mean by "unsound money"?

Re: Who died and left the US $7B?

#568

Post by jncfhnb »

mmcdermott wrote: post #490
jncfhnb wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that is the nature of compromise

Agreed, but the post above draws a direct line between a taxes and basic law and order, but one could support scaling back any number of taxes and spending programs without opposing or endangering law and order.

You don’t get the law and order unless the government is able to derive power from an accepting populace.

Re: Who died and left the US $7B?

#569

Post by willcipriano »

hgomersall wrote: post #567
willcipriano wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue a less correct framework that you could actually sell to voters and politicians would be more successful by the virtue of its policy actually being implemented (not just the fun bits). I can find you far more people who wish to abolish the fed and return to the gold standard than people who are willing to have the levels of taxation required to limit the inflation caused by funding the government with unsou…

Right, so I suggest now you're highlighting your lack of understanding. What do you mean by "unsound money"?

I see no point in arguing further as what you suggest is entirely a pipe dream.

Re: Who died and left the US $7B?

#570

Post by kelseyfrog »

VirusNewbie wrote: post #550
kelseyfrog wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you halve the money supply?

it's a thought exercise. I'm asking if you think that would the consequences be?

I don't think the thought exercise can exist in our reality then. Our reality requires a receipt for money supply to be halved.
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