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DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

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Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#561

Companies are culluding to suppress wages by algorithm, too. Look up a company called Aon, and their product called Radford Data & Analytics.

Genuine question: How do people on HN reconcile the idea that tech salaries are suppressed with advocating for remote work and opening employment to the global market where employees are often paid much much less than in the US?

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HR is not your friend. Corporate Confidential by Cynthia Shapiro is a recommended read. My advice; get a better offer elsewhere, then see if HR wants to pay you your worth.

Thanks for the interesting recommendation. The book you referenced is from 2005, has the game evolved in the past 20 years? My friends who work in HR seem to think so.

The problem is, it can change rapidly on the ground. We actully had a good HR team in a previous role, that really did work to support the employees, would push back against the org etc where approripiate (including on things like salary).

Financials in our parent company dipped, and rather than address their issues they went to war with the acquisitions they had picked up over the last five years or so to try and squeeze blood from a stone.

Step 1 was to immediately replace local HR teams with a US based team who proceeded to weaponise the data that had been held by the local team.

So even if you think HR today is "pretty good", it could change from underneath you very quickly.

The change was actually wild, one of the first things they did was try to get us all to sign new employment contracts that calculated how benefits defined in law in my country apply in the hopes that nobody would notice. It was effectively a paycut they were trying to hide.

It would have reduced my salary by close to 20k had I signed it, some people did. They refused to acknowledge this sneaky change until a few employees took up legal representation and then magically we all had new contracts the very next day with the issue suddenly resolved. Prior to this they just spent weeks gaslighting people and threatening termination for anyone that didn't re-sign the new contracts.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the interesting recommendation. The book you referenced is from 2005, has the game evolved in the past 20 years? My friends who work in HR seem to think so.

The problem is, it can change rapidly on the ground. We actully had a good HR team in a previous role, that really did work to support the employees, would push back against the org etc where approripiate (including on things like salary). Financials in our parent company dipped, and rather than address their issues they went to war with the acquisitions they had picked up over the last five years or so to try and sq…

Sounds like one or two startups I've worked for prior. Yikes.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#564
post #549

So companies in the future will not be able to subscribe to another companies algorithms? How is this a lot different? Tons of companies use credit bureaus to get the sameCredit data for pricing loans to people. Remove this and companies will charge consumers lots more since they'll have to face more risk. Tons of companies use prices when setting contracts in a ton of products (metals, food, stocks, and on and on) a…

I think if you read into the details you wouldn’t make such an obviously naive argument. The services provided by companies like realpage remove the ability to negotiate. More importantly, they explicitly manipulate supply coming into the market by removing competition. Take this example: a lease renewal offer is made available, the price is actually higher if the termination date corresponds to relatively high level…

And I can undercut those using the service to attract more tenants.

It's still a properly functioning market. Same forces to get tenants vs what tenants will pay.

Your arguments apply to nearly every single function one business offloads to another. However that merging of skill has resulted in lower costs, since every vendor doesn't have to pay to gather info from scratch, and can focus on specific value add.

Next you'll tell me landlords shouldnt be allowed to use credit reports, since that largely affects price or denials. And that will simply add cost as risk gets pushed back onto consumers.

This is no different than lots of existing services, such as credit reports.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#565

So companies in the future will not be able to subscribe to another companies algorithms? How is this a lot different? Tons of companies use credit bureaus to get the sameCredit data for pricing loans to people. Remove this and companies will charge consumers lots more since they'll have to face more risk. Tons of companies use prices when setting contracts in a ton of products (metals, food, stocks, and on and on) a…

This phrase, "I fail to see"

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#566

So companies in the future will not be able to subscribe to another companies algorithms? How is this a lot different? Tons of companies use credit bureaus to get the sameCredit data for pricing loans to people. Remove this and companies will charge consumers lots more since they'll have to face more risk. Tons of companies use prices when setting contracts in a ton of products (metals, food, stocks, and on and on) a…

> So companies in the future will not be able to subscribe to another companies algorithms? How is this a lot different? A lot different... keep reading more. > Tons of companies use credit bureaus to get the sameCredit data for pricing loans to people Except credit bureaus (1) are a regulated entity. You can't just use credit data freely, and you can't use any data to write loans. Loans can only be priced using appr…

Or I simply stop using their pricing, undercut my competitors, and gain tenants. Same as before.

The US has around 15million landlords, 20+ million units. RealPage has ~6000 customers.

It's pretty hard to set market prices with literally millions of competing landlords.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#567
post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soviet Union had a residency system also so everyone didn't just move to Moscow. Can we build enough housing in SF, Seattle, LA, SD to satisfy demand? Keep in mind that as soon as housing is affordable in these cities, even more people will move to them...so how much is enough?

Clearly more than right now given that all of those cities have a severe housing affordability crisis.

They do, but they are also growing, some rapidly. We know that building more freeways induces demand, I why wouldn’t building more housing induce demand also?

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#568

So companies in the future will not be able to subscribe to another companies algorithms? How is this a lot different? Tons of companies use credit bureaus to get the sameCredit data for pricing loans to people. Remove this and companies will charge consumers lots more since they'll have to face more risk. Tons of companies use prices when setting contracts in a ton of products (metals, food, stocks, and on and on) a…

> So companies in the future will not be able to subscribe to another companies algorithms?

I imagine only the anti-competitive ones.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#570
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll totally accept you're speaking just in the context of the USA but... > The fact that some people actually truly believe "free government housing" is going to be "decent" is absolutely tragic Council houses are fairly highly regarded in the UK (i.e. the property, in terms of space, light, build quality. The estates/tenants, not so much...). They also have a track record of maintaining them far better than private…

Wikipedia indicates most of these Council Homes were built in the early 1900's - and are not modern construction. An additional average of a around 100 homes total were built per year from the 40's through 1980. So these don't appear to be helping a significant portion of the population. Wikipedia also indicates in the 1970's the UK government dramatically and suddenly cut back on funding for these homes (among other…

> Your quality of life being dependent on the whims of politicians and budgets outside-your-control seems awful...

More or less awful than being dependent on the whims of rich rentiers and impersonal market forces? At least politicians have some accountability to the poor who can vote them out.

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