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Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

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Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you make it easy to stay proficient? For example you say your plane will never stall, will your pilots train stall recognition and recovery regularly? How will prevent something like what happened to AF447?

We'll still encourage and require the same proficiency checks that pilots do today. Our hope is that GA pilots will no longer need to do things like train stall recovery. We are moving into an era of aviation where aircraft (not just airplanes) will be complicated enough that computers have to be in the loop to handle things like that, because it allows us to create more interesting aerodynamic aircraft that are more…

My point about AF447 was:

  - even with redundancy, there can be enough failures that the computer no longer has enough information to make the right decision, one thing humans seem to be good at.

  - people who had been trained in stall recognition and recovery, but probably had not kept proficient at it (unlike pilot of slow airplanes like GA and glider pilots) failed to recognize it (only 1 of the 3 pilot did) and did not recover from it.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#562
post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The laws of chemistry that govern batteries and fossil fuels are known very well. We will never get batteries anywhere near as light weight as a liquid fuel. Sure the battery/motor is much more efficient, but not anywhere close to enough to make up for the massive energy/weight advantage liquid fuels.

It's not about weight or efficiency. If operating costs are lower, it will win out eventually. Current electric aircraft can carry 5 passengers and have a range of 250 miles. They cost half as much to operate per hour, because electricity is so much cheaper than fuel. The main reason why they're not popular is because batteries are expensive. As battery costs decrease, we'll see more of the market adopt them. Will el…

250 miles isn't nearly as much as it sounds - you need to leave plenty of buffer in case something goes wrong so cut some of that off. You also need to get to an airport and then from the other airport to where you are going. Thus most of the time for distances of that range driving is faster.

The cases where I've seen this in use are from island to island (or mainland) - where a boat is much slower and there is no bridge for a car. A useful niche, but not general purpose getting around. There are also a few people who happen to live near (often on) an airport and work near an airport who will fly, but that is also a small niche.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#563
post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely agree. Really quite tired of living in a country which focuses on individualised transport and car centric infrastructure. It's an absolute delight to get around in a country like Japan where I don't have to rely on a car at all.

i actually wonder what the statistics look like across the entire country of whether people actually like cars vs its the only way to get around. HN is a bubble including most of city folk. Most people I know love their cars, including myself. I love the freedom of leaving whenever i want, going wherever i want. However, i also adore trains. Both have their place. I think a personal (ideally extremely safe) airplane…

I think the statistics around want are completely irrelevant.

Car infrastructure has destroyed the US both from a physical and social perspective. I highly recommend "The High Cost of Free Parking" as an intro to just how far-reaching this blight goes.

Sure, some people should be able to have cars. They should also incur the _true_ cost of having those.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#564
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, airplanes are not great when it comes to their environmental impacts. If we are successful in our bet that we can grow the GA market, we'll have the resources to invest into greener propulsion technology. That space is currently evolving quickly, with hybrid-electric, hydrogen, full electric and others all being explored. So it's in our plans to address that as well.

I didn't want to make a snarky, unabashadly NIMBY comment until I read this response. For every dollar you lower barrier to entry in aviation, I'm going to be calling my local government representatives to raise it back up by two with taxes and fees. The solutions to environmental problems aren't to grow markets with technology we know is bad so we have the money to make it less bad. The solution is to make it so exp…

Look, go ahead and increase fuel taxes. If you reduce car fuel consumption by just 1%, but this company succeeds and quintuples (!) the fuel consumption by piston engine planes, the environment still comes out ahead. Flying is a tiny environmental factor compared to driving.

[Avgas consumption in the US is about 200m gallons a year, car fuel consumption some 130,000m gallons. Car plus planes 130,200m. Car -1%, planes x5: 128,700 + 1000 = 129,700m gallons.]

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least for me, getting around by train in Japan is preferable because of how convenient and fast it is, not because of any inherent advantage of public transport, and definitely not because I want to bear a cross for the greater good of society. Japanese society also contributes to how pleasant public transit is there, in comparison to the dregs of society that use NYC public transit. If I could have a 300kph auton…

How is the pod going to get you to your door. You would need a rail line leading to every home which is ridiculous.

The point is that most people would rather take private than public transport, all else equal (besides externalized costs, I don’t care how much co2 my pod emits). I would even pay a small premium for private transport compared to equally quick public transport.

To convince people to take public transport, you have to make it at least a side-grade, and making private transport worse without improving public transport will just lose you an election.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#566

What are the environmental implications of transitioning people traveling by car/train to small planes? In addition to being louder and dispersing pollutants over a wider area, don't small planes generate significantly more GHG emissions than cars over the same number of miles? Also, given that planes are not nearly as easy to electrify as cars and trains (energy density is significantly lower in batteries than liqui…

There's a Swedish company working on making electric region air travel a thing - ahttps://heartaerospace.com

I don't see why this wouldn't be possible to do with smaller air craft.

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#567

I was shocked when learning to fly how much GA tech was stuck in some weird pre-World War II era state. Everything seems so needlessly complicated. Even small aircraft cost so much that I couldn’t imagine a computer controlled system and fly by wire would be cost prohibitive. Even a new C172 is close to $400k at the low end, and anything you’d actually want to fly is much more. A few grand in electronics seems worth…

I feel that your third paragraph justifies the sentiment in the second? If left to their own devices, a functionary will add enough regulation to kill any fun activity, because they are not affected by the decisions they make. Another example is the new 406 MHz ELTs; it's not clear how effective ELTs are at saving lives, despite their 'obvious' utility, but now the price is higher, they have batteries that require re…

I'm curious about your comment about 406 MHz ELTs[1].

(I'm not a pilot, though I know a few.)

(First, a clarification, the old 121.5 MHz ELTs also require their manufacturer approved batteries to be replaced every few years in order to maintain their certification.)

(I also don't know the stats on whether ELTs are effective at saving lives or not. I can only assume they are though as anything that can speed the rescue of a lost or injured person greatly increases their chances of survival.)

My direct experience comes from the other side - finding people using ELTs (planes), PLBs (people), and EPIRBs (boats) - with a county Search and Rescue team in California. (To be fair, while we have a lot of rugged backcountry, we don't get a huge number of plane crashes in remote areas.)

I will strongly argue that - aside from price - the new 406 ELTs are far superior.

For those of you who don't know, all ELTs transmit a special signal[2] on 121.5 MHz which can be picked up with radio direction finding equipment[3].

Here's how a search works with the old ELTs - a plane crashes and sets off the beacon. The signal is hopefully heard by another airplane in the area who happens to be monitoring 121.5, by a ground-based monitoring station within range, or by a SARSAT[4][5] satellite when it makes a pass overhead every 90 minutes. Any of those can only detect the presence of a signal and its relative strength. So, now, once the info goes up the chain and back down the chain to the locally responsible agency, a search is initiated. Other info will be used as well - radar tracks disappearing, ADS-B data, etc. - but from the ELT side, teams will head to high points in the area with their RDF equipment and take multiple bearings on the signal which are triangulated to focus the search area. Once they make access to the area, the RDF equipment is used to further refine the location. If available, Civil Air Patrol and other airborne assets are also tasked with locating the plane via ELT signal as well as visually. This is fine and good and all works quite well. It is slow though. It takes time for the signal to be noticed and it takes time for the signal to be triangulated.

The new ELTs also transmit a digital packet on 406 MHz which includes a bunch of data including a serial number and the beacon's coordinates.

So, now searching for a plane with a new ELT now goes like this - a plane crashes and sets off the beacon. It starts sending out a digital burst every 50 seconds or so which is picked up by a satellite or ground-based receiving station. Satellite data goes to the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center[6] which then validates the information and passes it - including the coordinates - to the locally responsible agencies to initiate a rescue. (As an aside, since the signal incudes the serial number which has been registered to the owner, they will know details of the aircraft and can attempt to contact the owner to possibly confirm it was an accidental activation, or gather other information.) Now that the local agencies have the coordinates, they can make direct access to the location and effect a rescue in a much more timely and less resource-intensive way.

In one notable crash - of an experienced bush pilot - I was involved with, it were primarily found when they were reported as late in returning from a flight and the wreckage was identified as the large black spot on the side of a mountain directly inline with their last few ADS-B[7] (and Spidertracks[8]) transmissions. (I don't recall if the ELT signal was used or if the transmitter was destroyed in the fire.)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_position-indicating_...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:COSPAS-SARSAT_Locator_Bea...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-Tronics

[4] https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Cospas-Sarsat_Pr...

[6] https://www.1af.acc.af.mil/Units/AFRCC.aspx

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADS-B

[8] A proprietary aircraft tracking system which sends location and other data via the Iridium satellite network. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spidertracks

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#568
post #452
post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perfect is the enemy of good. I fly on rare occasions and I'm against flying unnecessarily. I drive a vehicle (shared with partner) because I don't want to be a hermit, yet I'm against driving in general (of course there'll need to be exceptions for when you're moving or too old to walk to/from public transport) and rather in favor of building out the more sustainable alternatives we have already today. That's not th…

Perfect is indeed the enemy of the good. So we should realize that not everyone values the same things and not single out something as deserving extinguishing just because it's something we personally don't value.

> not everyone values the same things

Pardon? We don't all value human lives? I'm not sure we're having the same conversation if your attitude to pollution is "that's just your opinion"

These things are objectively measurable. I don't even know where to begin, your comment is so odd to read idk if I'm misunderstanding you or what part of climate warming leading to all sorts of issues virtually everywhere, air pollution leading to health issues and premature deaths, the ongoing mass extinction that threatens our food system, etc. you're unaware of

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#569

While I think the project is pretty cool, I can't shake the pollution side of things out of my mind. Air transport is one of the most polluting ways to travel, and I would expect a single person airplane is even worse than a full A380. Is there anything you're doing to alleviate this issue ?

Some of the LSAs I've flown are not actually that bad pollution/climate wise. Slightly less green per mile than my mini cooper, way more green than basically any common American pickup truck.

Avgas (most commonly 100LL) continues to spew out lead, which was phased out for cars in 1996 in the US, is a major pollutant.

[1] https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-determines-lead-emissio... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/leaded-gas-wa...

Re: Launch HN: Airhart Aeronautics (YC S22) – A modern personal airplane

#570
post #453
post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Small-aircraft GA is a vanishingly small fraction of total fossil fuel use OP wrote: "We want people who don’t think about airplanes as a mode of transportation to start flying" They're meaning for this to become a larger fraction, besides that the relevant measure is pollution per benefit or per capita or something rather than absolute amount of pollution

So you're concluding that there is no benefit to general aviation because, presumably, you don't fly? I think we should absolutely keep airplanes as a mode of transportation, because the alternative is that all small airports go away and then it won't matter when renewable fuels become a reality because there will be no longer be anywhere to land and take off. Those airports would not come back.

> because, presumably, you don't fly?

First off, you've got this backwards. One doesn't have an opinion because one flies or not; conversely, one flies or not because one concludes their situation does or does not warrant the pollution for a particular destination

But equally weird, why are you making this about me personally? If I say I don't fly, that's probably unusual where you're from so I'll be the environmentalist out-group whose opinion is too extreme and can be dismissed. If I do I'll be considered a hypocrite (like what you called someone in the other thread). I can tell you the answer is a middle ground but I don't think it helps anyone here to make this about me. I'd much rather make this about facts and science rather than opinions and feelings

> I think we should absolutely keep airplanes as a mode of transportation

I agree, but since nobody said anything to the contrary, that seems like a given

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