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The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

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Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#561

Post by theossuary »

parineum wrote: post #559
theossuary wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the difference between a small town and city, it's the inevitable result of late stage capitalism. In cities it's still possible to go to small stores and create connection with your local grocer, butcher, etc. I purposefully do it, but I have to seek out the places it's still possible, they're dwindling every year. The problem is capitalism wants to consolidate and treat people as fungible to extract more…

Capitalism isn't a person, it doesn't want things. The problem with people that talk about capitalism the way you do is that they mistake human nature for the system that was built around it so when they try to change the system, the people are maladapted and transgress against it by default then it fails miserably.

No, the issue is pedantic people like you who can't understand that "want" is a simple way of saying that a system is biased towards certain outcomes. Capitalism is not an expression of human nature, it's a single possible pareto equilibrium. To say otherwise ignores huge swaths of humans history, and many modern nations which have achieved equilibrium in different ways.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#562

Post by Animats »

StopTheWorld wrote: post #145
kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

Professor Michael Rosenfeld at Stanford does research on how heterosexual couples in the US meet ( https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/ ). In 1940, over 50% met via friends or family. About 36% met at school. In 2021, about 20% met via friends or family. About 10% met at school. Over 50% met online. So the majority of US couples are now meeting via profit-maximizing corporations. He has a 2019 paper on this (and it ha…

Well, of course. Today, approaching someone of the opposite sex whom you haven't previously chatted with online is creepy.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#563

Post by Dalewyn »

XorNot wrote: post #552
Dalewyn wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First the axiom so we're all on the same page: I truly and wholeheartedly agree with and believe in the notion that life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness are unalienable rights. Marriage is many things, but chief among them is that marriage is an inevitable compromise of each others' liberties and therein lies the violation. Who am I to compromise my would-be wife's unalienable right to liberty? Who is my would-be…

> I consider the entire premise of marriage is that it is a permanent thing until death do us part. Right so you invented a notion of marriage which doesn't apply in the society you live in and then invented a problem created by that invented supposition. This all sounds very normal.

If marriage is not some kind of "special" arrangement, why do we place so much value on the concept?

Marriage is clearly very different from and more significant than simple friendship or other mundane relationship arrangement, and everyone's reasoning as to why will vary depending upon their religious and/or cultural upbringing and values.

Personally, as I stated earlier, I consider marriage to be some kind of permanent-ish arrangement (and especially if children become involved). There is an artificial out (divorce), but as far as I'm concerned it isn't something that should be used with wanton abandon. Thus, I place a lot of weight on why I would marry in the first place; if I am going to divorce, I should not have married in the first place.

I am deliberately violating the "Do not let perfect be the enemy of good." rule precisely because I demand a would-be marriage to be perfect given how many human rights I would flagrantly violate. I know I am never going to marry with such prerequisites and I desire that, because otherwise I cannot live with myself.

If you have any worthwhile arguments to the contrary to bring to the table I am quite happy to hear them. My conclusions thus far are the result of many years of deep and thorough deliberation, but I am also aware that it is far from infallible.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#564

Post by [deleted] »

KittenInABox wrote: post #121
philip1209 wrote: post #66

The books the authors cite are great and worth reading. Some personal observations: - The USA lacks a unified cultural identity now. There are lots of reasons for this. But, it's considered taboo to express a love of the USA - which hurts our community + culture. - People put a lot of effort into work, and work is becoming more transactional. No more "life-long employment with the buddies" kind of situation. - Americ…

> - America went from poor to rich, but still behaves like a developing economy. Public healthcare + public education + low-income housing availability are poor, while there's a big class of people who can afford private education + private healthcare + McMansions. I think this deteriorates the idea of "we're all in this together" because there's such unequal opportunity. America has had a long history of unequal opp…

[deleted]

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#565

Post by nearlyepic »

Dalewyn wrote: post #538
paulryanrogers wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I frankly find marriage to be nothing short of a human rights violation anyway. Just curious, but how could marriage be a rights violation?

First the axiom so we're all on the same page: I truly and wholeheartedly agree with and believe in the notion that life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness are unalienable rights. Marriage is many things, but chief among them is that marriage is an inevitable compromise of each others' liberties and therein lies the violation. Who am I to compromise my would-be wife's unalienable right to liberty? Who is my would-be…

I think that axiomatically quoting the US declaration of independence is a deeply unhealthy way of approaching the world the world at large.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#566

Post by dyauspitr »

silisili wrote: post #472
jrussino wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, there was another big shift happening from 1940-1980: - in 1940, the top 3 were: met through family, met through friends, met in primary school. In that order, but pretty much equal - From 1940-1980, two of those three (family, primary school) trended sharply downward, as did "met in church", while these trended upward: met through friends, met in bar or restaurant, met as or through coworkers, met in…

> I have a strange feeling that some of those are just people too embarassed to say they met online Probably right. I don't really get the stigma, but I've known a few people personally who told the same lie and found later it was online. One in particular had a huge elaborate story about their bar meeting. His wife told me later one day he basically selected her from a website. So like most questions, probably worth…

You question the stigma and then finish your paragraph with “just selected her from a website”.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#567

Post by dyauspitr »

fsckboy wrote: post #480
lawlessone wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised dating sites work well enough that 50% of customers meet via it. They've no incentive to help you leave.

> They've no incentive to help you leave they have plenty of incentive to get you some dates, after that what are they gonna do?

Get you bad dates with incompatible people?

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#568

Post by Dalewyn »

nearlyepic wrote: post #565
Dalewyn wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First the axiom so we're all on the same page: I truly and wholeheartedly agree with and believe in the notion that life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness are unalienable rights. Marriage is many things, but chief among them is that marriage is an inevitable compromise of each others' liberties and therein lies the violation. Who am I to compromise my would-be wife's unalienable right to liberty? Who is my would-be…

I think that axiomatically quoting the US declaration of independence is a deeply unhealthy way of approaching the world the world at large.

So you disagree that life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness are unalienable rights?

Are you saying that they can (or should?!) be violated?

Why?

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#569

Post by parineum »

theossuary wrote: post #561
parineum wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism isn't a person, it doesn't want things. The problem with people that talk about capitalism the way you do is that they mistake human nature for the system that was built around it so when they try to change the system, the people are maladapted and transgress against it by default then it fails miserably.

No, the issue is pedantic people like you who can't understand that "want" is a simple way of saying that a system is biased towards certain outcomes. Capitalism is not an expression of human nature, it's a single possible pareto equilibrium. To say otherwise ignores huge swaths of humans history, and many modern nations which have achieved equilibrium in different ways.

Capitalism is a system built by people that recognize that humans are reliably selfish and seeks to align their selfish interests as best as it can with the rest of the populous.

No nation has ever achieved equilibrium but we are enjoying the most peaceful times in history during a time after the previous wave of capitalism-alternatives failed miserably or acquiesced.

Just about every measure of human flourishing is in the rise, globally.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#570

Post by silisili »

dyauspitr wrote: post #566
silisili wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a strange feeling that some of those are just people too embarassed to say they met online Probably right. I don't really get the stigma, but I've known a few people personally who told the same lie and found later it was online. One in particular had a huge elaborate story about their bar meeting. His wife told me later one day he basically selected her from a website. So like most questions, probably worth…

You question the stigma and then finish your paragraph with “just selected her from a website”.

Explained a possibility in another comment.

When an older, morbidly obese person is with a much more attractive and younger foreign person, you can work out most of the details in your head. Is it not more embarrassing to make up some Top Gun-esque story? I don't know.

I met my first wife in person, second on Facebook(8ish years and going). I feel zero shame in the meeting place, more shame for having married the first. So yes, personally, I don't understand the stigma.

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