Alexa is in millions of households and Amazon is losing billions • Hacker News Board

Re: Alexa is in millions of households and Amazon is losing billions

#561

Post by blindriver » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 5:35 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #86

The core issue is that Amazon envisioned Alexa as a product that would help it increase sales. Smart home features were always an afterthought. How convenient would it be if people could shout "Alexa order me Tide Pods" from wherever they were in their home and the order got magically processed? That demo definitely got applause from a boardroom full of execs. The problem is that consumers don't behave like that. Thi…

The problem is that they thought consumers were dumb and lazy and would just blindly order Tide Pods no matter what the price. That's not how it works, and Amazon lost a lot of trust over the last 10+ years that their prices were the best.

They should incorporate AI and allow people to have a conversation. "Alexa, how much are Tide Pods?" "They are $10/pack right now, the last time they were lower was May 2023." "Are these cheaper than Walmart?" "No.", etc. But of course they are so greedy they want to try to funnel people directly into Amazon, and their greed is why they are don't have sales through Alexa.

Re: Alexa is in millions of households and Amazon is losing billions

#562

Post by _xnmw » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 5:38 AM UTC

Sometimes I think about the billions of dollars invested in stupid marginal tech like voice assistants, or boilerplate spreadsheet replacement SaaS and wonder if capitalism has failed. Why is this money not being invested in something that is obviously more desperately needed, like building more housing? As this article pointed out, some of this stupid marginal tech like Alexa isn't even making a profit, Amazon is *loosing* billions on it. Then why do this? We have real crises facing us, like climate change and the housing crisis and war, and meanwhile YC is funding "developer tooling". As if what society needs most right now is that developers with 6-figure salaries need to make their already cushy jobs slightly easier with some IDE widget.

Re: Alexa is in millions of households and Amazon is losing billions

#563

Post by shagie » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 5:40 AM UTC

julianeon wrote: post #316

paxys wrote: post #86

The core issue is that Amazon envisioned Alexa as a product that would help it increase sales. Smart home features were always an afterthought. How convenient would it be if people could shout "Alexa order me Tide Pods" from wherever they were in their home and the order got magically processed? That demo definitely got applause from a boardroom full of execs. The problem is that consumers don't behave like that. Thi…

> Alexa can set timers and tell me the weather, and...that's basically it. My usage is: ~30%: timers ~10%: weather ~60%: tell Alexa to add things to a shopping list, which I use when I'm at a physical store or ready to do a curbside shopping order

As an aside, the clock pairs nicely with timers. A sibling of mine who works second and third shift likes it in part because it keeps the time, isn’t illuminated (7 segment leds are out) and the analog aesthetic but without any noise of many analog clocks ticking.

I have one in my kitchen (no echo show for exact values on a timer), and it does a nice job with the timers.

Re: Alexa is in millions of households and Amazon is losing billions

#564

Post by shagie » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 5:49 AM UTC

ihkasfjdkabnsk wrote: post #390

asdasdsddd wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've interviewed many people on Alexa before. From what I gather, its just a giant switch statement, and each individual "path" takes a bunch of effort to support and there are thousands of paths for music, ordering, commands, etc. It's peak AI == if statement architecture.

Throwaway, used to work at the NLU unit of Alexa about 5 years ago. There is some ML going on but as with all ML projects I have worked on people want control. This means you add rules for the "important" stuff. You also add test cases to make sure the ML works. But if you already have those test cases, why not just match on them directly? There are also advanced techniques for generating examples (FST for example).…

Was there a knowledge engine of some sort in the past? I could ask it some questions like “what color is a light red flower” and I would get back “a pink flower is pink.” Asking what color a purple cat was would get back purple… but asking what color a blue bird was would get back “a blue bird is blue, red, and brown.”

“Who has birthdays today?” And I would get a list of famous people with birthdays today. I could also ask if Alice and Bob (two names in the list) had the same birthday and I would get an answer (one time I think I got back some internal query language for it instead… but that’s lost in old bug reports).

Now any interesting question starts its answer with “according to an Alexa answers contributor…”

Re: Alexa is in millions of households and Amazon is losing billions

#565

Post by bradley13 » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 5:52 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #86

The core issue is that Amazon envisioned Alexa as a product that would help it increase sales. Smart home features were always an afterthought. How convenient would it be if people could shout "Alexa order me Tide Pods" from wherever they were in their home and the order got magically processed? That demo definitely got applause from a boardroom full of execs. The problem is that consumers don't behave like that. Thi…

It might have worked, if Amazon policed their sellers. However, there are so many poor or scammy sellers, so many counterfeit products, that you really have to scrutinize every order.

Aside from books, Amazon has become my last choice as a place to order.

Re: Alexa is in millions of households and Amazon is losing billions

#566

Post by andrewstuart » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 5:52 AM UTC

What happened to all the stuff about relentless custom focus?

Re: Alexa is in millions of households and Amazon is losing billions

#567

Post by tsimionescu » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 5:52 AM UTC

dchftcs wrote: post #559

maccard wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big difference with a store is that if tide pods should be ~$8 for a pack, the dtore is incredibly unlikely to have one pack of tide pods on the shelf for $70

In some cases the retail store just doesn't list the price and the store owner may just come up with a highly marked-up price when asked. 10x would be very rare though indeed.

What store doesn't list prices? Isn't that illegal in most places? In my country even the tiniest ancient village stores I've been to have prices listed on items (sometimes simple labels attached to the items, such as "10", but still there).

Re: Alexa is in millions of households and Amazon is losing billions

#568

Post by toasterlovin » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 5:53 AM UTC

Hextinium wrote: post #560

toasterlovin wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their search result page is just a ranking of whatever they predict will sell best based on your query (based on units, not dollars). It’s stupidly simlistic, actually: if we sell more for a given search term because we’re advertising hard on that search term, our organic ranking for that term will rise almost immediately. So in your case, what’s going on is that basically other people who search with the same term e…

But think about the corollary where places like McMasterCarr have exact products in known quantities, types and breakdowns because they used to be a catalogue. I will go to McMaster 9/10 times because it's just easy to find exactly what I want and so they get my money. Amazon seems hostile to this very idea, that I know what I want, will spend 15% more to have it tomorrow and will not by the random stuff it smashes i…

Oh I get it. I actually think there’s a huge opportunity in online retail to gate off categories and brands that are already in, say, Walmart. Then do the Amazon algorithmic model for everything else.

I think you’re missing how crucial Amazon’s algorithmic model has been as a way to connect shoppers with 2 day delivery for an unimaginably long tail of products. We sell a technical product that would be at home on McMaster. On the 2nd largest retailer in the US. It’s incomprehensible that our products would ever be in Target or Walmart stores. Yet we have access to the same customer base at the same place where they can buy Tide. Amazon’s purely algorithmic approach is what allows companies like us to do product/market discovery for them (and their customers).

Re: Alexa is in millions of households and Amazon is losing billions

#569

Post by Tcepsa » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 5:54 AM UTC

swatcoder wrote: post #100

paxys wrote: post #86

The core issue is that Amazon envisioned Alexa as a product that would help it increase sales. Smart home features were always an afterthought. How convenient would it be if people could shout "Alexa order me Tide Pods" from wherever they were in their home and the order got magically processed? That demo definitely got applause from a boardroom full of execs. The problem is that consumers don't behave like that. Thi…

> I always want to see a page with the product details and price before I click "buy". Reducing the number of clicks is not going to make me change my decision. This is compounded by the multi-headed monster that large orgs like theirs have no choice but to become. If customers could trust that every day essentials had a relatively stable price and availability pattern like they trust from their local grocery store (…

LOL, makes me think of something more like putting in an order on a stock exchange:

Alexa, what's the current price of a small box of Tide Pods?

A box of 10 Tide Pods costs $5

Alexa, place a limit order for a box of 10 Tide Pods at $5 to expire at the end of the day if not filled, and notify me when it is filled.

If I can order you a box of 10 Tide Pods for $5 or less today, I will do so and notify you.

...time passes...

I have filled your order for a box of 10 Tide Pods for $5; they are expected to be delivered within the next two days

Not that this would necessarily be a good thing, but it seems to me like it would generally beat having to pull out my phone or fire up my browser and do it that way...

[Edit: formatting]

Re: Alexa is in millions of households and Amazon is losing billions

#570

Post by Arn_Thor » Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 5:54 AM UTC

tgma wrote: post #361

cqqxo4zV46cp wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fun. The person you’ve replied to has stated a concrete (what they perceive to be) benefit of consumer protection regulation. One that doesn’t seem to limit choice at all, but rather improves visibility. I’m also inserting my own personal experience here. The country I live in, which isn’t in Europe, has similar regulation in place. In response you’re throwing around some vague notion of “freedom” and vague i…

Can you think of any downside of that proposal at all? Tax inclusive total means government can screw the business and the end user and hide behind the tax inclusive price tag. Jack up the tax it seems the business is doing it.

The government can not "screw the business and the end user" because tax rates are public. VAT changes don't just happen in secret. Tax changes to specific product categories (such as extra taxes for alcohol in some countries) are publically debated. And if you want lower taxes you try to vote in a more economically right-wing government. The framing of your statement makes it clear you just don't trust/like governments. That's fine, I guess, but it's an incredibly strong bias in your arguments