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No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#561

Post by 9dev »

mikhael28 wrote: post #493
dsign wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being emotionally available My dad taught me boys do the opposite. My schoolmates told me that emotions were not for boys. I'm pretty sure I'm not a unique snowflake. > participating in chores Dad said that boys don't do domestic chores. If a couple lives inside an apartment, all chores are domestic. > providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time Jesus, this is not exactly trivial for most of us…

Well, I guess don’t move to the big city and try to settle down with an IG baddie? I appreciate the fact that people like this exist, everywhere, in large quantities. But that means that the dating market, in some places, have decided there is no product market fit. Very HN statement. Now, the options are - rebrand, or move to new market, or government regulation to provide ‘protectionist’ tariffs and trade barriers…

You nailed that metaphor. To the very end.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#562

Post by lolc »

caeril wrote: post #479
lolc wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the first part about who is likely to be an abuser I can see how one would argue that. But why focus on the mother about what she should be doing in a divorce? Responsibility for the children rests with both parents! Even if in the end it's often the mother actually stepping up. I find that's a central part of the article, that societal pressire for men to look after their children is lacking. And they don't on…

> often the mother actually stepping up I don't think the evidence bears this out. It's often the mother's lawyer optimizing her post-divorce income (via child support) by agitating for as much of the custody split as possible, in a family court system that is systemically biased against fathers being awarded custody. I will edit this with citations if I find time later.

Of course the courts are biased against males! Males are much less eager to take on custody. And I claim that without even checking, because it's in plain sight and also a main thread of the article we comment under. I'd be very surprised if you would show otherwise. That to me explains but of course does not excuse the bias in courts.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#563

Post by illiac786 »

jjk166 wrote: post #553
illiac786 wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not what the parent wrote. Not having a yacht is not like “having a worse yacht by xyz criteria”, hence that comparison just does not work. There is always a family. I personally agree with the parent here, it might be helpful to read the article again.

Okay fine. Rich people say your car doesn't need to be a Lamborghini, a Toyota Corolla is fine. Yet, rich people buy Lamborghinis. A Toyota Corolla is a worse car by xyz criteria. Clearly having a better car is very important for becoming and staying rich, and the wealthy are undermining the poor with their "you don't need a sports car" posturing. I think it would be helpful for you to reread the article, specificall…

I think you misunderstood, or I’m a little male lost in what your point is: there is no causality between owning an expensive car and being rich. There is evidence pointing to otherwise for (whole) nuclear families and being rich(er).

Secondly, doing as is expected of them and “not stepping up” is not really the same thing, is it? Almost the opposite, actually, stepping up is doing what is expected of you, with some emphasis on this being hard.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#564

Post by pwthornton »

caeril wrote: post #479
lolc wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the first part about who is likely to be an abuser I can see how one would argue that. But why focus on the mother about what she should be doing in a divorce? Responsibility for the children rests with both parents! Even if in the end it's often the mother actually stepping up. I find that's a central part of the article, that societal pressire for men to look after their children is lacking. And they don't on…

> often the mother actually stepping up I don't think the evidence bears this out. It's often the mother's lawyer optimizing her post-divorce income (via child support) by agitating for as much of the custody split as possible, in a family court system that is systemically biased against fathers being awarded custody. I will edit this with citations if I find time later.

Plenty of men get joint custody, and in many jurisdictions, this is the default.

The law cannot help it that there are so many bum men. This article is about that. Whether or not low expectations are the reason remains to be seen, but there is an epidemic of worthless bum men.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#565

Post by pwthornton »

portpecos wrote: post #366

> Amy, a white thirty-year-old mother of three, ages six, five, and three, had a boyfriend who worked steadily but insisted on spending on selfish pursuits. This is what eventually broke the young couple up. ‘He wouldn’t spend money for the kids’ food. I had to send my kids across the street to my mom’s to feed them and stuff. That’s what I got fed up with. I shouldn’t have to live like that…I said it’s time for him…

I don't know why you assumed they weren't his kids. The article implied they were. It is unclear, but there is no evidence that they aren't his and certainly no evidence that her kids all have different fathers. This is incel talk.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#566

Post by pwthornton »

mmaniac wrote: post #470
ashf023 wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the article talks about how the men are basically doing whatever they want and women are left as single mothers with multiple kids...

Independence achieved at last, for men and women.

What kind of bum doesn't take care of your kids? That's no independence. That's a dereliction of duty.

Pure incel talk. Pure loser talk.

Who wants to go through life being a loser?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#567

Post by big-green-man »

galdosdi wrote: post #491
big-green-man wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being the perfect adult is table stakes ? This description is the ideal middle class man. If that's table stakes to you, either you've got one hell of a catch or you've got a few more years left before you settle. Most adults, full grown adults, men and women, don't meet all those requirements. I do, most don't.

There's actually plenty of people like that out there, but probably not where you live.

Oh there are plenty of people like that, yes. Well, minus the "makes good money but doesnt work a lot". But that's not table stakes.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#568

Post by big-green-man »

squigz wrote: post #560
big-green-man wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being the perfect adult is table stakes ? This description is the ideal middle class man. If that's table stakes to you, either you've got one hell of a catch or you've got a few more years left before you settle. Most adults, full grown adults, men and women, don't meet all those requirements. I do, most don't.

My dude, if you think that's the 'perfect adult', whew... That is, absolutely, the bare minimum for an adult friend, let alone a romantic partner. Let's just break this down to be clear as to what you think the 'perfect adult' is: - Being emotionally available - participating in chores - providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time - being reasonably well-read - good conversationalist

I don't know why youre quoting "perfect adult", I didn't use that term once.

I said "ideal middle class man." And it is. Every reasonable woman wants that, every man wants to be at least that, yet most men don't check every one of those boxes, particularly being able to provide a comfortable lifestyle without working all the time, that one is maybe 10% of men. A good starting goal? Sure. Table stakes? Good luck.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#569

Post by squigz »

big-green-man wrote: post #568
squigz wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dude, if you think that's the 'perfect adult', whew... That is, absolutely, the bare minimum for an adult friend, let alone a romantic partner. Let's just break this down to be clear as to what you think the 'perfect adult' is: - Being emotionally available - participating in chores - providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time - being reasonably well-read - good conversationalist

I don't know why youre quoting "perfect adult", I didn't use that term once. I said "ideal middle class man." And it is. Every reasonable woman wants that, every man wants to be at least that, yet most men don't check every one of those boxes, particularly being able to provide a comfortable lifestyle without working all the time, that one is maybe 10% of men. A good starting goal? Sure. Table stakes? Good luck.

You literally did.

> Being the perfect adult is table stakes? This description is the ideal middle class man. If that's table stakes to you, either you've got one hell of a catch or you've got a few more years left before you settle. Most adults, full grown adults, men and women, don't meet all those requirements. I do, most don't.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#570

Post by pwthornton »

Doches wrote: post #229
nikanj wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being emotionally available, participating in chores, providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time, being reasonably well-read and good conversationalist, etc. Have you not noticed how much more we expect from men as partners? NB I’m not saying we shouldn’t expect more from them. I’m saying many are seeing the list of demands, and opting out of even trying

> Being emotionally available, participating in chores, providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time, being reasonably well-read and good conversationalist, etc. I...honestly cannot tell if this is meant ironically. Those things seem like table stakes for being an adult. It's not "expecting more of them" to simply expect people to...grow up, and help care for the other people in their lives. You w…

Welllll, women are saying a lot of men don't do this. They are basically bums.

Our great crisis is the growing number of bum men. And rather than work on being not bums, they sit around and complain online and stew.

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