U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#561

Post by mcfedr » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 6:18 PM UTC

davidham wrote: post #318

Regarding the Apple Wallet: what about it is uncompetitive? I can add credit cards from many providers to it, and as far as I can tell Apple doesn't get anything if I add my Chase card and use it with Apple Pay. I don't think banks have to pay Apple anything for their cards to be used in the Apple wallet. Nor do non-financial cards like memberships.

You try and make an app that competes with Apple wallet.

You will very quickly find you can never have access to the NFC hardware. And you could not trigger your app when required.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#562

Post by pksebben » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 6:20 PM UTC

dathinab wrote: post #537

Fripplebubby wrote: post #287

For folks who don't have time to read a 90 page document, the case rests on specific claims, not just the general claim that iPhone is a monopoly because it's so big. Here are those claims: 1. "Super Apps" Apple has restrictions on what they allow on the App Store as far as "Super Apps", which are apps that might offer a wide variety of different services (specifically, an app which has several "mini programs" within…

They should have added claims for: - NFC apple does have full NFC support for their products but for other apps there are tons of road blocks for using anything close to full NFC functionality - Bluetooth same, similar more usable, but some functionality is still not available for 3rd party apps at all meaning certain things can only be provided 1st party by Apple - Strange behaviour when releasing questionable compe…

Bluetooth remains my biggest gripe with my iphone. When I walk out of range of any connected device, my call switches from my headset to the phone, and I have to manually go in and reconnect to my headset every third or fourth time I want to connect to it.

It stands in stark contrast to literally everything else about the device, which is almost universally easy and thoughtless.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#563

Post by gigatexal » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 6:20 PM UTC

Get the popcorn. This is gonna be good. It’s more or less tying or US v Microsoft no?

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#564

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 6:20 PM UTC

dathinab wrote: post #537

Fripplebubby wrote: post #287

For folks who don't have time to read a 90 page document, the case rests on specific claims, not just the general claim that iPhone is a monopoly because it's so big. Here are those claims: 1. "Super Apps" Apple has restrictions on what they allow on the App Store as far as "Super Apps", which are apps that might offer a wide variety of different services (specifically, an app which has several "mini programs" within…

They should have added claims for: - NFC apple does have full NFC support for their products but for other apps there are tons of road blocks for using anything close to full NFC functionality - Bluetooth same, similar more usable, but some functionality is still not available for 3rd party apps at all meaning certain things can only be provided 1st party by Apple - Strange behaviour when releasing questionable compe…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#565

Post by mcfedr » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 6:22 PM UTC

tarsinge wrote: post #155

generj wrote: post #110

I think it’s interesting this is one of the first large anti-tech anti-trust lawsuits that has actually materialized since the FTC/DOJ signaled interest in going after these giants. Perhaps the case is less complex and this could be brought earlier? Or there were some really damning things in discovery proving other justifications Apple has (security, performance, etc) are secondary to punishing competitors products.…

The Google monopoly seems way worst and straightforward to me. Why it isn’t addressed first and why does everyone seemingly ignore them and obsess with Apple is a mystery to me.

It's just incomparable.

Sms - android choose 100 apps that can deal with SMS, iOS - one app, no one else can touch SMS

Phone - same

Wallet - any app can be a payment wallet, my own bank, privat24 has this functionality - iOS, only Apple can use NFC

Photos - only iCloud can sync them

The list goes on

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#566

Post by amelius » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 6:22 PM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #403

Fripplebubby wrote: post #287

For folks who don't have time to read a 90 page document, the case rests on specific claims, not just the general claim that iPhone is a monopoly because it's so big. Here are those claims: 1. "Super Apps" Apple has restrictions on what they allow on the App Store as far as "Super Apps", which are apps that might offer a wide variety of different services (specifically, an app which has several "mini programs" within…

I believe Apple needs more regulatory action taken against it for abusing it's dominant position. But apart from cloud streaming apps (which they've resolved recently by allowing them), I find these claims to be pretty weak and not significantly market-affecting. I strongly believe Apple is under no obligation to make iMessage cross-platform. It's their service they invented, and they get to run it how they chose. SM…

> I strongly believe Apple is under no obligation to make iMessage cross-platform. It's their service they invented, and they get to run it how they chose.

So if it were up to you all telecom operators would be on separate networks, because you can always use smoke signals to get your message across?

(I'm with you for niche applications where the number of users is small. But we're talking mainstream communication here.)

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#567

Post by skydhash » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 6:22 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #420

Fripplebubby wrote: post #287

For folks who don't have time to read a 90 page document, the case rests on specific claims, not just the general claim that iPhone is a monopoly because it's so big. Here are those claims: 1. "Super Apps" Apple has restrictions on what they allow on the App Store as far as "Super Apps", which are apps that might offer a wide variety of different services (specifically, an app which has several "mini programs" within…

I just don’t understand the appeal of “Super Apps”. Do users really want to hire a taxi with the same application they use to message their friends, and have that be the same application they use to buy household goods, and have that be the same application they use to control their garage door? It doesn’t make sense to me. These are totally different tasks. Why would a user want to use the same app to do them? Imagi…

Google itself is a superapp at this point as you only have one account. But to answer your question, I think it’s because of interoperability issues. Why can’t my calendar services message me? Or why can’t I quickly create an event inside a chat? If you remember PDAs, they fell under the definition of one ecosystem to manage your communication and time, but now you have several services that refuses to talk to each other. One of the core strength of Apple is that kind of integration. It’s not that you want one company managing it all, you just want an integrated app ecosystem.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#568

Post by dfabulich » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 6:23 PM UTC

Fripplebubby wrote: post #287

For folks who don't have time to read a 90 page document, the case rests on specific claims, not just the general claim that iPhone is a monopoly because it's so big. Here are those claims: 1. "Super Apps" Apple has restrictions on what they allow on the App Store as far as "Super Apps", which are apps that might offer a wide variety of different services (specifically, an app which has several "mini programs" within…

We do have "Super Apps" in the Western world. They're called "web browsers."

Note that Apple doesn't allow alternative web browsers on iOS, so Safari/WebKit is the only Super App allowed on iOS.

https://open-web-advocacy.org/apple-browser-ban/

> When you download Chrome, Firefox or any other browser that isn't Safari on an Apple device, that browser is forced to use Safari's rendering engine WebKit. Chrome normally uses Chromium, and Firefox Gecko. However, Apple will not allow those browsers to use their own engines. Without the ability to use their own engines, those browsers are unable to bring you their latest and greatest features, and can only go so far as whatever WebKit has added.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#569

Post by mrcwinn » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 6:23 PM UTC

pornel wrote: post #282

endisneigh wrote: post #129

I assert it is trivial to not buy Apple products, easy to make alternatives to Apple products and easy to buy feature equivalent devices to Apple products. In lieu of this what is the problem? If the government has a problem why not say any code should be able to be run on any device? Honestly I’m curious - what’s the problem? There are android phones that are superior to iPhones and let you run anything you want. Wh…

Apple + Google form a duopoly. Apple has locked down iOS to let them do whatever they want and overcharge as much as they like, and Google has no incentive to be any better, because there's no serious 3rd contender*. For typical users not buying Apple means having to compromise on privacy with Google, which isn't a great option either. Both are trying their best to create vendor lock-in and make it hard for users to…

It's an interesting perspective, but as I understand this case, the case is not interested in a developer's bargaining power against their distributor. The case is interested in the impact on consumers (fewer choices, higher prices). There's certainly no argument to make that consumers lack a variety of apps and app features.

I care about you as a developer, but I'm not sure this case does. Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#570

Post by jupp0r » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 6:23 PM UTC

cvdub wrote: post #544

jupp0r wrote: post #465

"The company “undermines” the ability of iPhone users to message with owners of other types of smartphones, like those running the Android operating system, the government said. That divide — epitomized by the green bubbles that show an Android owner’s messages — sent a signal that other smartphones were lower quality than the iPhone, according to the lawsuit." Is this even factually true? Messages that are sent as t…

The problem is Apple is corrupting SMS, which should be a public and interoperable standard. Google/Gmail is doing the same thing to email. There’s no technical reason you couldn’t have end-to-end encrypted text messages between iOS and Android. I bet way more people would try Android if they could fully participate in group texts.

There are tons of apps that offer end-to-end encrypted messaging between iOS and Android (and Windows, MacOS, Linux fwiw). Apple offers APIs to allow you to associate your contacts with their ID in those apps so you can easily message them or share photos and files as part of iOS. The thing they are accused of is that they provide a great experience for users in their ecosystem on top of that.