Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

amazingcto.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

561–570 of 662 posts

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#561

Post by unmole »

nicce wrote: post #11
ianlevesque wrote: post #2

The funny thing about legislation is that you're responsible for the unintended consequences of your laws too.

In this case, it is just showing that most companies are collecting more data than they need. You don’t need a banner for the data that is necessary for the service to work at minimum level. There is no role for the consent since the site won’t work otherwise.

> it is just showing that most companies are collecting more data than they need.

Thankfully we have EU institutions to protect us from these evil companies. But somehow the EU institution websites all have cookie banners too.

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#562

Post by FredPret »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #548
FredPret wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get it - what you're saying is a very common-sense regulation. Reasonable people can disagree about this. But different societies prefer a different balance here. Americans are used to a more caveat emptor situation. Europeans want more regulation. Which one to choose is a political choice. What's happening is that the political choice that the EU went with is being forced on the rest of us, whether we like it or n…

With all due respect, you're speaking on behalf of 1 person here, not an entire country of people, and certainly not the entirety of the non-E.U. world. "We" can speak for ourselves, and don't all agree with the views you're ascribing to us. And "I" don't agree with the sort of stereotyping I'm responding to. I'm personally glad someone is doing something for my privacy here. My own government, due to regulatory capt…

Uh, what?

Because the EU is forcing you to do something that you want to do anyway, you now like it?

If you want cookie banner laws in your non-EU country, vote for it.

I don’t want some bureacrat I didn’t vote for issuing diktats that affect how I build my business and my websites.

The entire point is that we all need representatives in government.

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#563

Post by XCSme »

adulion wrote: post #61

can you build a website nowadays with analytics without using cookies? or violating GDPR?

Best way is to self-host your analytics, the main thing about GDPR is not sending your data to third parties or using it for marketing/targeting purposes.

By not sending the data to third-parties, you already comply to most of the GDPR policies.

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#564

Post by ambichook »

lynx23 wrote: post #296
CipherThrowaway wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. How much corporate propaganda are people consuming that legislators are seen as wholly responsible for the bad behavior and malicious compliance actions of corporations? What does it say about the relationship between businesses and consumers that the first response to this bad behavior is to shout "look what you made them do!" Seemingly it is everyone's fault except the bad actors themselves.

If it only were that simple. When the GDPR came out, a lot of confusion and misunderstanding ensued. Not only regarding the damn cookie banner. Even totally legitimate health-care providers started to collect signatures to be on the safe side. I still rememeber receiving a basic GDPR training where we were told that opt-out/signing is only necessary if the entity is planning to do weird stuff with your data. IOW, if…

would an adjustment of GDPR that forces websites to respect DNT solve the problem? am i missing something obvious? (aside from the pain in the ass that is amending laws) /gen

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#565

Post by aurareturn »

layer8 wrote: post #167
aurareturn wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that companies are doing that says more about the bad law than the companies which is exactly Paul Graham's point.

The law is pretty crystal clear. In many cases the issue is that websites are outsourcing their tracking to ad companies, which in turn apply those banners indiscriminately because that's in their interest. That being said, all the dark-pattern banners actually break the law. The problem, if anything, is lack of enforcement of the law.

  The law is pretty crystal clear. In many cases the issue is that websites are outsourcing their tracking to ad companies, which in turn apply those banners indiscriminately because that's in their interest.
You think a small company should roll their own tracking software? A mom and pop website that wants to track its conversion rate on its little eCommerce site?

Come on. Be realistic.

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#566

Post by ambichook »

aednichols wrote: post #504
espadrine wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is an authoritative source[0]: > consent is not required [for] cookies that are strictly necessary to provide an online service that the person explicitly requested. e.g. […] when your customers use a shopping basket So shopping carts (user clicked to add to cart) and notification preferences (user clicked to indicate preference) don’t require consent. Same for authentication cookies. The page is quite clear; th…

I am amused that your official EU link, which contains only static documentation, asks me to choose between “all cookies” and “essential cookies”.

i think it's worth noting that those cookies keep track of whether you have filled out their feedback form and to count the number of unique visitors to the page, or cookies from third parties the website may present embeds from https://european-union.europa.eu/cookies_en

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#567

Post by ambichook »

arbuge wrote: post #542
vman81 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's actually a bit ironic to ask visitors if it's ok to track them. If they say no, you have to track them to at least remember that choice. Not really - basic functionality like you describe does not require consent, AND any cookie specifying non-consent is in itself anonymous.

> any cookie specifying non-consent is in itself anonymous If you really make it anonymous, the downside then is that you have to keep asking the same visitor over and over again, each time they visit.

its a cookie stored on their device right? if its not a unique cookie it would still be anonymous if it isnt cleared every time they leave wouldnt it?

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#568

Post by ambichook »

schnuri wrote: post #415

Is it just me or does someone else finds it curious that a post with 414 points in 2 hours and many comments is on page 2? There are posts with less points, and less comments in more time that are on the first page. Is the HN ranking algorithm public?

flame war detector will downgrade posts like this if i understand HN correctly :)

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#569

Post by ambichook »

master-lincoln wrote: post #135
thunfischtoast wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a business cannot survive without it essentially stealing my property (read: my data), it should not survive.

This is copying, not stealing though. But I agree, taking advantage of me telling you personal info by selling it to externals is unfair without consent

and yet these companies consider piracy stealing too, thats just copying for free without consent, where's the difference?

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#570

Post by ambichook »

zpeti wrote: post #538
master-lincoln wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course this is "doing sketchy shit with people's data". Selling my personal info to external companies so that they can manipulate me easier is sketchy in my eyes if I don't consent

“ Selling my personal info to external companies” What? What are you even talking about? Google does not sell your personal info. You’re delusional

if a company is making more money by using google adsense, which tracks me across the internet, it has sold my data to google
Post reply on HN