[deleted]
House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app
561–570 of 1001 posts
Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app
#562Don't be fooled by talk about security or privacy. This is simple Nation State realpolitik. TikTok is a propaganda threat controlled by a non-friendly state to the US. Any other way to look at this is naive.
It's not even just about propaganda. Watch Tik Tok videos in China and it's all young people helping the elderly, learning job skills, and doing other socially virtuous things. Watch Tik Tok videos outside of China and it's all videos of kids stealing cars, eating Tide pods, and pranking people in Home Depot.
Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app
#563Earlier quoted context omitted.
This feels mostly right. Although, it may not make it past the senate, and it might not get signed if it goes by the president. Especially since he's campaigning on TikTok. What amazes me is how people's view in these threads are for a ban. For a counter point, the EFF thinks congress should not ban apps[0] [0] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/03/congress-should-give-u...
This seems like we're just going to be playing whack-a-mole with the next thing that pops up (perhaps an even more nefarious or nebulously owned app). Why would we not create better data privacy laws and/or ban the sale/transfer of PII to enemy countries if that's the problem we're trying to solve?
Because that is not the really the whole problem we are trying to solve. At root of the TikTok problem is the fact that a nation like China is not playing on a level playing field in our Free Market. A free market works when all the participants are playing on a level playing field. TikTok is not because China as a country does not believe or follow free market principles. As such to further their national goals they will happily bend and break all of our rules with no real way for us to prevent or even detect it.
You can't treat Chinese companies the same way as US companies or even most European countries. They won't play by the rules. You have to treat them differently.
The experiment we started in the 90's to try to export Free Market to the world was interesting but the data shows that it doesn't actually work in Autocratic countries. It's time to stop pretending like it produces good outcomes overall.
Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app
#564Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What’s being described isn’t an eye for an eye, but tit for tat. Those are exact synonyms. > And tit for tat is the norm for international relations It’s commonly been a norm (not the norm), and its a norm that usually produces escalatory spirals, because actors tend to be more sensitive to harms to themselves from others policies and less sensitive those from other’s policy.
Eye for an eye connotes, if not denotes, proportionate justice. International relations, childish propaganda notwithstanding, is not at all about justice. Tit for tat on the other hand is specifically a game theory term as used here, and it applies exactly to this sort of diplomatic strategic calculation.
> Eye for an eye connotes, if not denotes, proportionate justice.
No, the law of retribution is not about proportionate justice. It is about retribution.
It’s a association with justice is that it is seen as less unjust and a step toward justice and less socially disruptive than accepting deliberately-escalatory retribution for perceived wrongs as a norm.
Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app
#565Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think we should "lowest common denominator" to oppressive regimes. Our Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." TikTok, at the end of the day, is just a kind of…
TikTok, at the end of the day, is just a kind of printing press. No, TikTok is essentially digital opium. And China itself has confirmed that reality by 1) restricting their citizens' daily access and 2) significantly filtering the content they can see on it: https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/03/08/1069527/china-ti... It would only be fair of the US to follow China's example of protecting its citizens from numbin…
If you honestly believed this to be true, you would be arguing for a ban on all social media, as like half of Instagram is just reposts of TikTok content and is otherwise mind-numbingly equivalent to the service.
Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app
#566Earlier quoted context omitted.
The word "reciprocity" cannot hide the fact that two wrongs doesn't make a right. We think it is wrong of China to censor Facebook and Twitter because that is what authoritarian regimes that don't give a shit about free speech do. For exactly the same reason it is wrong of the US to ban TikTok. And this bill has nothing to do with balancing international trade. It's stated purpose is to restrict China's ability to in…
China is not a US citizen.
Some animals are more equal than others?
Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app
#567Earlier quoted context omitted.
I remember seeing a study that compared the content TikTok served to children in China vs other countries. I would have to look and find it again. But basically, Chinese children got lots of science, engineering, and other educational content, while other countries got your run of the mill generic time-wasting nothingburger nonsense kind of content. Food for thought.
Check out the difference between CNN International and CNN US. One is a proper news channel covering US and Intl affairs and competing for influence with BBC, NHK, France 24 and DW. The other is a editorial banter from talking heads discussing 2 political parties like they're competing with ESPN.
Well yeah I don't rely on any major media outlets to stay informed. At least various perspectives are allowed to exist in America as opposed to bringing "black-vanned" in China
Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app
#568Earlier quoted context omitted.
But Tiktok is much worse for US citizens: - Facebook+Twitter are US-based entities and have to follow US laws and regulations in a much more strict way than Tiktok - They are not controlled by a politically-motivated adversarial government You are also conflating apps "from a country" vs apps "under a country's gvmt control". I think most here would agree "apps from a plurality of countries" is a good goal to strive…
On the other hand, a citizen should be more scared of his own govt rather than foreign govt because foreign govt won't arrest him. So for an American TikTok is probably less threat than Facebook or Twitter.
I don't even know how you reach that kind of conclusion from that fact. It's not even strictly true. If I travel to China or Russia for a trip there is absolutely nothing stopping them from arresting me. It's only true if you never travel to that foreign country.
In the case of Russia they can do worse than imprison you. Just ask any number of Russia defectors who were killed on on Western soil. This is a very poorly thought out take.
Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app
#569Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems fairly written to me.
My issue is that this could be applied very broadly: > (B) a covered company that— > (i) is controlled by a foreign adversary; and > (ii) that is determined by the President to present a significant threat to the national security of the United States following the issuance of— > (I) a public notice proposing such determination; and > (II) a public report to Congress, submitted not less than 30 days before such deter…
It's less bad than I'd expected. I half expected that the "owned or controlled by a foreign adversary" text wouldn't be there.
Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app
#570The actual bill is here: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7521 And I think the interesting bit is what is considered a covered company: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7521... The wording could be applied to many companies, including chat apps like Telegram. The only saving grace is that the company has to be controlled by a "foreign adversary", and it seems to explicitl…
This should be the first comment.