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Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

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Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#561

Post by Aurornis »

vlovich123 wrote: post #528
Aurornis wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The government doesn't learn which web sites you visit, and the web sites don't learn anything about you other than you are certified to be age ≥ 16. If the zero-knowledge proof doesn't communicate anything other than the result of an age check, then the trivial exploit is for 1 person to upload an ID to the internet and every kid everywhere to use it. It's not sufficient to check if someone has access to an ID whe…

As I mentioned elsewhere, you’re falling for letting perfect be the enemy of good. The ZKP + phone biometrics only needs to raise the cost of bypass above what adolescents have access to. And no, you can’t just share the same ID because there’s revocation support in the mDL and it’s difficult to extract the raw data once it’s stored on the trusted element. This is very similar to how credit cards on phones work which…

Sorry, you’re not thinking like a group of 15 year olds trying to get online.

The revocation list means nothing when they can get ahold of someone’s older sibling’s ID and sign up for social media.

Did everyone just forget what it’s like to an ambitious kid who wants to get online?

Do people really think a platform that needs people to jump through these hoops and use this imaginary international ID architecture is feasible?

Does anyone really think that kids won’t just set their location to Estonia and/or use a VPN to circumvent all of this?

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#562

Post by judge2020 »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #483
geogra4 wrote: post #276

I remember when I was 10 years old at a computer camp during the summer at a local college. They had me set up my first email account with hotmail. They all asked us to lie about our age. I think even then they had restrictions that you had to be 13 years old. But - that was over 25 years ago. The internet was a much different place.

Fast forward to today. Ours came home with a google account in the 5th grade I think. Something I explicitly did not want. They didn't send a permission slip home like they do for everything else either. Another teacher around the time had the kids set up on GoodReads. They were under 13 and there was a TOS at the time restricted to 13+. Mostly adults on that site. Not happy with the school to say the least.

> Fast forward to today. Ours came home with a google account in the 5th grade I think. Something I explicitly did not want. They didn't send a permission slip home like they do for everything else either.

Google Workspace accounts, especially those for education[0], have Web & App Activity, as well as Location History, automatically turned off. It's just a tool for schools to get free/cheap email, storage, and classroom tools. For your child under 13 to be able to use it compliant with COPPA[1], your school must have either used some level of blanket consent, or the school didn't bother to actually get the parental consent Google requires.

0: https://edu.google.com/intl/ALL_us/workspace-for-education/e...

1: https://cloud.google.com/security/compliance/coppa

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#563

Post by adamredwoods »

causal wrote: post #36

I might be the only one here in favor of this, and wanting to see a federal rollout. It is not reasonable to expect parents to spontaneously agree on a strategy for keeping kids off social media- and that kind of coordination is what it would take, because the kids + social media companies have more than enough time to coordinate workarounds. Have the law put the social media companies on the parents side, or these k…

I am against government regulation of websites and classification of websites. If we allow government to do this, it will be politicized at some point.

We need to find a better way, for example (just a quick idea), social websites run and protected by a school-by-school basis. This way, it can be regulated and controlled.

In other words, government should regulate what they already have control over, not impose new control measures over things they don't.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#564

Post by neilv »

What is "social media", and how much are they actually banning communications, speech, association, organizing, political activity, etc. by young people?

Plus a backdoor way to promote surveillance tracking to communications for everyone, by the likely mechanisms to be used in practice for excluding those under 16.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#565

Post by unethical_ban »

TillE wrote: post #413
o11c wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In particular, "anonymous speech is required if you want to have free speech" is actually a very niche position, not a mainstream one. It just happens to be widely spammed in certain online cultures.

America has a very long tradition of anonymity being part of free speech, going back to the Federalist Papers. This is not some new online issue.

Wealthy, politically connected men with the ability to read and write about political philosophy and get it distributed is a bit different situation than a thousand Russian AI trollbots posting bad-faith "opinions" on American current events.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#566

Post by meroes »

causal wrote: post #36

I might be the only one here in favor of this, and wanting to see a federal rollout. It is not reasonable to expect parents to spontaneously agree on a strategy for keeping kids off social media- and that kind of coordination is what it would take, because the kids + social media companies have more than enough time to coordinate workarounds. Have the law put the social media companies on the parents side, or these k…

social media replaced the old internet. this is like banning kids from the internet. Talk about pulling the ladder up behind yourself

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#567

Post by jonathankoren »

jcranmer wrote: post #555
jonathankoren wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It is not "absolutely permitted in America". They're Klan Acts, because a bunch of guys in masks and robes marching through is obviously a threat of violence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law

Those laws are frequently overturned as unconstitutional, but may still remain on the books because we don't do a good job of clearing out laws that were ruled unconstitutional. As a general rule of thumb, almost every time someone brings an edge case about whether or not speech is First Amendment-privileged before SCOTUS, SCOTUS rules in favor of the speech. (The main exception is speech of students in school.) SCOT…

The last court case was 2004, and the New York anti-mask was upheld.

You don’t have to pontificate. The link was right there.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#568

Post by plorg »

neom wrote: post #431
satellite2 wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a cryptographer so I might miss something but I have the impression that - either a stolen card can be reused thousands of time meaning that it's so easy to get a fake that it's not worth the implementation cost - either there is away to uniquely identify a card and then it becomes another identifier like tracking ids.

It would be neat if some authority like the passport office or social security office also provided a virtual ID that includes the features OP described and allowed specific individual attributes to be shared or not shared, revoked any time, much like when you authenticate a 3rd party app to gmail or etc.

Yeah, hell no.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#569

Post by protocolture »

jlokier wrote: post #249
lukev wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the only way to do this is to require ID checks, effectively regulating and destroying the anonymous nature of the internet (and probably unconstitutional under the First Amendment, to boot.) It's the same problem with requiring age verification for porn. It's not that anyone wants kids to have easy access to this stuff, but that any of these laws will either be (a) unenforceable and useless, or (b) draconian and…

> But the only way to do this is to require ID checks, effectively regulating and destroying the anonymous nature of the internet That seems intuitive, but it's not actually true. I suggest looking up zero-knowledge proofs. Using modern cryptography, it is easy to send a machine-generated proof to your social media provider that your government-provided ID says your age is ≥ 16, without revealing anything else about…

I dont want government crapware on my device to access the internet.

I also dont want third party crapware on my device to access the internet.

"wowee it can be done without revealing my identity to anyone but the government or the corp running the chain"

No thanks

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#570

Post by protocolture »

Aurornis wrote: post #561
vlovich123 wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I mentioned elsewhere, you’re falling for letting perfect be the enemy of good. The ZKP + phone biometrics only needs to raise the cost of bypass above what adolescents have access to. And no, you can’t just share the same ID because there’s revocation support in the mDL and it’s difficult to extract the raw data once it’s stored on the trusted element. This is very similar to how credit cards on phones work which…

Sorry, you’re not thinking like a group of 15 year olds trying to get online. The revocation list means nothing when they can get ahold of someone’s older sibling’s ID and sign up for social media. Did everyone just forget what it’s like to an ambitious kid who wants to get online? Do people really think a platform that needs people to jump through these hoops and use this imaginary international ID architecture is f…

This. The parties that this will detriment are all older people. Kids will simply bypass it.
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