EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram • Hacker News Board

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#561

Post by sokoloff » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 5:56 PM UTC

SonicScrub wrote: post #492

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your hypothetical evil government isn’t going to go “aw shucks, I guess I can’t kill the unbelievers because Facebook doesn’t track them!” Evil regimes have never had a problem finding lots and lots of citizens to kill in the 99% of human history before the internet.

Big data aggregation makes this process much much easier. We are living in unprecedented times of mass surveillance, and we have yet to have a real reckoning of what that means in the hands of extreme ideologies. Also things don't have to be as extreme as literally killing all members of a minority group for this to be deemed "bad". It can be as simple as targetted influence campaigns to push certain policies/agenda.…

I agree it's cheaper and somewhat easier now, but there's always been the ability to differentiate messages to different audiences. (Not an audience of 1, but not hard to reach targeted demographics.)

Advertising in Inc vs Wall St Journal vs People magazine vs Wired vs TV Guide vs Car & Driver vs Cosmo vs Ebony all gave you easy ways to target different audiences. It's more targeted now, but I don't think it's multiple orders of magnitude more powerful (mostly because the reach isn't nearly the entire story; you still have to influence after reaching.)

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#562

Post by officeplant » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

IgorPartola wrote: post #454

officeplant wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that refuses to use Linked In or Facebook it is wild to me that someone would not only use them, but willingly link a dating app to them. It makes me wonder how many more things I'll never get to participate in because I've deleted/avoid social media.

So FB has one solid product that I wish they wouldn’t fuck up so much: Marketplace. Everything else about it sucks but MP is legitimately useful and the ability to see a person’s social profile along with their listings is very nice. It is the only reason I still have an FB profile.

Facebook Marketplace sucking the life out of Craigslist hits me hard every time I have something to sell and I really don't want to bother with ebay + shipping.

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

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Post by semiquaver » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

officeplant wrote: post #306

lapphi wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upon logging into okcupid today I received a pop up inviting me to join The League (another dating app), with my phone number already pre-propagated. After accepting, they sent me this email. > We use the combination of your Facebook and LinkedIn data plus your About Me and Photos to ensure we are building a balanced, high-achieving and diverse community. Our screening algorithm looks at indicators like social influe…

As someone that refuses to use Linked In or Facebook it is wild to me that someone would not only use them, but willingly link a dating app to them. It makes me wonder how many more things I'll never get to participate in because I've deleted/avoid social media.

The sad part is that willingness doesn’t really enter into it. And refusal to use FB or linkedin doesn’t really provide much protection. Data brokers can create a rich profile of anyone who participates in the modern economy. Payroll firms, credit card processors, etc etc are all selling data to the highest bidder. I’m convinced that opting out of this system is not really possible without opting out of society in general.

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#564

Post by staunton » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 6:01 PM UTC

pb7 wrote: post #229

staunton wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in an age where the idea of large corporations is still fairly young (much younger than governments) and where governments are much stronger than corporations. However, if Google could get away with running a police, I think it's pretty obvious they would. This judicial system would benefit their commercial interests and ignore any semblance of "right" you might think you deserve. A shadow of that situation i…

> However, if Google could get away with running a police, I think it's pretty obvious they would. Absurd premise. It might be obvious only to those deluded into thinking that being shown relevant ads in order to use products for free is some sort of tyranny.

Why exactly do you think it's absurd? Can you give some arguments or explain how you model what a corporation will or won't do?

My original post also didn't give argumens. To explain my model: a large corporation will act in such ways as to maximize profits. So if running a police is profitable (I think it is) and no negative consequences would arise from such an attempt (by assumption), the corporation will do it.

There are lots of possibile negative consequences I'm assuming away here. Maybe people will be as opposed to such actions as to stop buying the corporation's products. Maybe governments will prevent the corporation from acting this way. Maybe you think the scenario absurd because I'm "assuming away too much"?

If not, of course, this "profit-focused model" of corporations is not perfect (no model is) and my claim might still be wrong even under those assumptions.

For example, maybe you think that executives would think it wrong to establish a judicial system although they could do it and profit from it. I think it's reasonable to expect that pressure to be profitable would eventually result in a situation in some related big corporation where executives in favor are in the majority. They might aspire to running this police "ethically", more ethically than any police was ever run, to appease those opposed.

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#565

Post by gls2ro » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 6:02 PM UTC

throw8383833jj wrote: post #548

TheBozzCL wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, data collection has been completely normalized. I've been thinking about buying a new car, but I'm very aware of how much tracking/telematics they include nowadays... so I decided to search "$manufacturer disable telematics". Every single thread I found was full of people saying variants of "Why do you even want to do that lol" and "Looks like somebody is doing something illegal". Every time I see stuff like t…

i get the having control of your data part (at least for address, name, social sec #, phone number and email - those are really important). but i could care less if an algorithm knows i like elvis presely or what my taste in food is, etc. but i don't understand how personalized ads are harmful. if you don't like the product, just don't buy it? what am i missing? personally, i only buy products that I really want or r…

personalized ads are harmful because they can target your deep (sometimes even unknown by you) fears or desires sometimes in the most vulnerable moment.

So the choice to act is not as free as you describe.

You seem to think only about cases where personalized ads are used for products but the most harm is when people use this to influence groups. the same way they personalize an ad for a product that seems to be the perfect fit in your current situation the same mechanism/algorithm can personalize a message in a way that will influence you just a bit. and then tomorrow another small bit and so you find yourself (a general self not you) hating groups of people you never encountered so far.

Intelligence or IQ or whatever rational high points you have will not protect you from this over a long period of exposure.

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#566

Post by officeplant » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 6:02 PM UTC

Someone wrote: post #528

officeplant wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that refuses to use Linked In or Facebook it is wild to me that someone would not only use them, but willingly link a dating app to them. It makes me wonder how many more things I'll never get to participate in because I've deleted/avoid social media.

You should also wonder how many things you’re being participated in. Even if you’ve never had an account on social media, chances are Facebook, LinkedIn, etc. know your name, email address, age, social graph, etc. because other people have shared their address book with them. Other users also might have tagged photos with your name, after which those sites concluded “that must be the same officeplant that’s in their…

Its one of the reasons I contemplated keeping a facebook account to remain in control of a few things. I had turned on the option to let me verify all tags and it was great to be able to deny tags, but I always assumed facebook still knew it was me and could associate the same untagged face across photos that still had my name listed (just not tagged due to denying).

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

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Post by FirmwareBurner » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 6:03 PM UTC

JAlexoid wrote: post #391

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google ad-tech still tracks you as you browse non-google websites.

They're not your websites. If you wish, we should make it way more clear about it. But telling a small newspaper to stop using ads for revenue, when you aren't willing to financially support them is... hypocritical. In short - just like a lot of "this ids good for you" laws, this will definitely impact smaller companies way more than you think.

>But telling a small newspaper to stop using ads for revenue, when you aren't willing to financially support them is... hypocritical.

How do you know I am not willing to pay?

OK, I'll be the millionth commenter to repeat this viewpoint for the millionth time on HN: nobody has issues with online ads to support their favorite newspaper or creator, people have an issue with tracking and targeting ads.

We've had ad supported websites, forums and blogs since the 90's, but those were generic and harmless, and wouldn't track and target YOU.

So if newspapers or any other websites want to use weaponized ad-tech on me, then excuse me, but I'm gonna block the shit out of them with no remorse, to protect myself.

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#568

Post by idopmstuff » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 6:04 PM UTC

lapetitejort wrote: post #525

savanaly wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's much easier to change what company you do business with than what government you're under. I can't believe you're managing to turn this simple fact on its head and imply the exact opposite.

How can I stop doing business with Experian, Transunion, and Equifax?

You can't, but that's not a particularly good example of why it's hard to stop doing business with private companies, because the reason you can't stop doing business with them is that the government has specifically mandated it.

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#569

Post by mantas » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 6:04 PM UTC

spacebanana7 wrote: post #78

mantas wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Best one I heard was people claiming products will be more expensive if personalized advertising is banned. Because then it’ll cost more to promote them.

Marketing is a major cost factor for many products. You can't sustainably sell anything for less than customer acquisition cost. This is familiar to SaaS people but also high margin products like perfume and professional services.

That’s why I try to avoid products that sponsor major sports events/teams/athletes/etc. I want a good product, not surrounding marketing.

Products with no fancy marketing, frequently coming from smaller local companies, bring much better price/quality ratio.

Re: EU data regulator bans personalised advertising on Facebook and Instagram

#570

Post by cm2012 » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 6:05 PM UTC

manuelabeledo wrote: post #393

cm2012 wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My argument is - this data doesn't hurt anyone, is not likely to hurt anyone, and it is valuable enough that banning ad targeting is a mistake. Per your specific harm: Thank you for actually responding with a real potential harm, the first time ever in 10 years of posting similar comments on HN! Weight loss ads (along with teeth whitening ads) are much more common with non-targeted ads, by the way. When ad targeting…

> My argument is - this data doesn't hurt anyone, is not likely to hurt anyone, and it is valuable enough that banning ad targeting is a mistake. I see where you come from, but that data shouldn't be for sale. Regardless of the fact that it may be valuable for some third party, if I have not given my consent, that should be enough to instantly ban any storage and processing of it. This should be the default. At the v…

It's not for sale. You rent the ability to license an abstraction of it to do ad targeting, FB and Google dont sell data to anyone.